It’s not all about qualification. I’m speaking as a female Marine Iraq war vet who did serve in the combat zone doing entry checkpoint duty in Fallujah, and we worked with the grunts daily for that time. All the branches still have different standards for females and males. Why? Because most women wouldn’t even qualify to be in the military if they didn’t have separate standards. Men and women are different, but those pushing women into combat don’t want to admit that truth. They huff and puff about how women can do whatever men can do, but it just ain’t so. We’re built differently, and it doesn’t matter that one particular woman could best one particular man. The best woman is still no match for the best man, and most of the men she’d be fireman-carrying off the battlefield will be at least 100 lbs heavier than her with their gear on.
Women are often great shooters but can’t run in 50-80 lbs of gear as long, hard, or fast as men. Military training is hard enough on men’s bodies; it’s harder on women’s. And until women stop menstruating, there will always be an uphill battle for staying level and strong at all times. No one wants to talk about the fact that in the days before a woman’s cycle, she loses half her strength, to say nothing of the emotional ups and downs that affect judgment. And how would you like fighting through PMS symptoms while clearing a town or going through a firefight? Then there are the logistics of making all the accommodations for women in the field, from stopping the convoy to pee or because her cycle started to stripping down to get hosed off after having to go into combat with full MOP gear when there’s a biological threat.
This is to say nothing of unit cohesion, which is imperative and paramount, especially in the combat fields. When preparing for battle, the last thing on your mind should be sex; but you put men and women in close quarters together, and human nature is what it is (this is also why the repeal of DADT is so damaging). It doesn’t matter what the rules are. The Navy proved that when they started allowing women on ship. What happened? They were having sex and getting pregnant, ruining unit cohesion (not to mention derailing the operations because they’d have to change course to get them off ship.)
When I deployed, we’d hardly been in the country a few weeks before one of our females had to be sent home because she’d gotten pregnant (nice waste of training, not to mention taxpayer money that paid for it). That’s your military readiness? Our enemies are laughing – “Thanks for giving us another vulnerability, USA!”
Then there are relationships. Whether it’s a consensual relationship, unwanted advances, or sexual assault, they all destroy unit cohesion. No one is talking about the physical and emotional stuff that goes along with men and women together. A good relationship can foment jealousy and the perception of favoritism. A relationship goes sour, and suddenly one loses faith in the very person who may need to drag one off the field of battle. A sexual assault happens, and a woman not only loses faith in her fellows, but may fear them. A vindictive man paints a woman as easy, and she loses the respect of her peers. A vindictive woman wants to destroy a man’s career with a false accusation (yes, folks, this happens too); and it’s poison to the unit. All this happens before the fighting even begins.
Yet another little-discussed issue is that some female military members are leaving their kids behind to advance their careers by deploying. I know of one divorced Marine who left her two sons, one of them autistic, with their grandparents while she deployed. She was wounded on base (not on the front lines) and is a purple heart recipient. What if she’d been killed, leaving behind her special needs child? Glory was more important than motherhood. Another case in my own unit was a married female who became angry when they wouldn’t let both her and her husband deploy at the same time. Career advancement was the greater concern.
I understand the will to fight. I joined the Marines in the hopes of deploying because I believe that fighting jihadists is right. And I care about the women and children in Islamic countries where they are denied their rights, subjugated, mutilated, and murdered with impunity; and where children are molested and raped with impunity (not to mention defending our own freedom against these hate-filled terrorists who want to destroy freedom-loving countries like America.) Joining the Marines was one of the best things I’ve ever done in my life, and I’m glad I got to deploy. It not only allowed me to witness the war, but to witness the problems with women in combat.
Women have many wonderful strengths, and there is certainly a lot of work for women to do in the military. But all the problems that come with men and women working together are compounded in the war zone, destroying the cohesion necessary to fight bloody, hellish war. We are at war; and if we want to win, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the top priority should be military readiness and WINNING wars, not political correctness and artificially imposed “equality” on the military.
(Editor’s note: read Part 2 here.)
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Well said Jude, well said. Putting young women into combat with young men is like putting the fire out with gasoline. Tough to do.
JUDE, THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE AND FOR SUCH A TRUTHFUL ARTICLE. YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASK TO TESTIFY BEFORE CONGRESS ON THIS ISSUE, BUT AS USUAL THE POWERS THAT BE, BOTH PARTIES INCLUDED, MOST DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH ON ANY ISSUES. THEY DON’T SEEM TO CARE IF OBAMA IS TRYING HIS BEST TO DESTROY AMERICA AND FROM WITHIN. WHAT BETTER WAY THEN TO DESTROY OUR MILITARY, NOT TO MENTION THRU OUR ECONOMY. THANK GOD THERE ARE STILL PATRIOTS WHO WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH AND STAND UP TO THESE TRAITORS. OUR WORK HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN! FURTHER MORE, THESE ‘USEFUL IDIOTS’ ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO REASON WITH. TO YOU PATRIOTS OUT THERE-KEEP UP YOUR FAITH IN GOD & COUNTRY. TOGETHER WE CAN RETURN AMERICA AS ONE ENVISIONED BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS AND THE CONSTITUTION.
Sorry…the authors article is far from truthful. She intentional omitted facts!
Well said…to bad the commies running the show don’t care.
Girl has a head on her shoulders, but I think it would work if the complete unit was of one gender. Females from the top down, Queers from the top down and males from the top down………………..But that sounds like segregation so the ACLU would never approve…………..
Stop trying to make sense!!! You might hurt BO’s feeling…
completely fine with that
You made sense until your prejudice popped up.
I was replying to JRHowosso’s comment.
onex, since when is the truth considered being prejudiced.
Thank you Jude for your well written article.
I learned something today, and I thank you for it. I did not know that a woman loses half of her strength days before her period. That information helps men understand some things about women.
Um, no. I’ve been female for 34 years and I’ve never once heard this or experienced it. I served as a mechanic in the army, lifting heavy things all the time, and doing my PT test at any time during my “cycle.” I have never once had my strength affected by the timing of my period.
I think the thing to remember here is that different women experience different things. Just because you don’t experience that-or don’t have symptoms-doesn’t mean it should negate those that do. I used to get debilitating headaches at the onset. That doesn’t mean every woman does, should, or will experience this, it just means that many do, and it is something to consider when making decisions like these.
Just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean others don’t either. Me personally I never had problems like that. Now I get so weak irritable to where everything makes me upset. There is a condition thats called PMDD it affects 5% of women and mild to severe pms affects 35% of women. I think this article makes alot of sense not just on the cycle part but mixing women and men in stressful situations may not be a great idea.
Eddie,
you have been mis informed. Women in general do NOT lose half of their strength before, during or after her period. Some women who have a very heavy flow MAY be ANEMIC, which CAN cause her to be more tired than usual. This is FACT. Check with any medical professional for confirmation. Women are not the weaker sex due to loss of uteren lining. : )
It is not FACT. Fact is I am male. Fact is the brand of monitor in front of me is DELL. What you mean is theory based of findings from medical professionals. When people say fact it is confusing to others that don’t know what facts, theories and hypothesis are. I don’t mean to be rude, I just dislike when people tell me that some doctor or scientist discovered something and that it is now apparently fact. These professionals are proven wrong all the time by others on their findings. Other than the “This is FACT.” part, your comment was very insightful.
“No one wants to talk about the fact that in the days before a woman’s cycle, she loses half her strength,” Seriously?! I am a retired female Marine and a former DI. Never, ever, have me nor any female Marine that I have ever come in contact with, (well maybe one, the author) had such an issue! Where is the documentation to back up the facts of her statement?
This is laughable – all women know what they go through when their cycle comes around. The change in hormones results in fatigue, cramping etc. All women treat this with things like midol to LESSEN THE SYMPTOMS. Being a DI doesn’t qualify you in the combat MOS’s, which is the subject of this article.
This is an excellent article which needs the widest circulation! I plan to post this link to a couple of blogs, because there has been considerable discussion about this serious matter particularly among retired military, who know better than most something about the negatives of women in combat positions.
No one is more qualified than you, Jude, to give such a good perspective of this subject, and I wish you could be interviewed on a program such as Hannity’s or Greta’s. The public needs to know the truth particularly from someone like yourself, who does not have some hidden agenda. Thanks for writing this essay.
Thank You for a very thoughtful honest post. I questioned Obama and this decision. And like you I felt it will be damaging to everyone and everything. Then I though…well of course…that is the very reason! Our American hating Muslim POTUS strikes again!
Dear Madchen,
The changes in hormones during menstruation are well documented. Just because you didn’t notice these fluctuations doesn’t make them any less common to most women. Testosterone is lowest during this time and women can become anemic. There’s a reason pms medication treats symptoms of fatigue and muscle pain. Since we’re all individuals and no body is the same, these symptoms vary by degrees, but this doesn’t detract at all from the points I made.
To everyone else, thanks for all your supportive comments! I will keep publishing here and you can also follow me at PoliticalAnimalBlog.com!
Cheers!
Jude
Dear Jude,
Forgive me if this question has already been put to you. You say woman have “wonderful strengths”. What, to your belief, are these strengths? I believe from your implied experience and essay that you put a lot of thought into this. Which makes me curious of your opinion. I understand you were trying to make a persuasive argument based on your own perception. I hope you thought of the specifics of your ideal and and are able to answer this as unbiased as possible.
Thanks
Allow me to interject something that could be used to pro or con on this allowing women in combat. My information sort of paraphrases the article; if a man and woman are normal, the man is 80% stronger than the woman, strike one. Instinct, as the article says causes men to move to protect the woman in a fight. So, look at it this way; 20 soldiers go on recon, 5 of them are women. That puts the effective force at 10 men, for the 5 women will not be effective, 5 of the men will be ineffective trying to cover the women. Strike two… Than if they are captured, let the women know that they are in for a brutal raping from nobody knows how many dozen enemy shoulders… Strike three… The idea to put women up front just because a few loud mouths have made noise really needs some close scrutiny, REAL scrutiny. Not some whiner who can lift too hundred pounds over her head and thinks that’s all there is to it… just sayin’
First of all I admire these women for wanting to defend our country. But, I myself could not do this especially if I was put @ the front lines. The only thing that concerns me if these women became POW’s. These women would definitely be torchered differently than the men. These women would get treated as if they were a punching bag & gang raped on a daily basis. Just remember that the idiots from those countries that treat their women like 2nd class citizens would probably treat our women worse just because they are Americans.
I can’t even BEGIN to describe how OFFENDED I am at this female’s article. I served in a PATRIOT unit, which, when we deployed, was assigned to an Infantry unit. My husband and I BOTH left behind our children. This did not make us bad parents. All soldiers who have custody of their children ( single parents) or dual military ( both husband and wife are active duty) are REQUIRED to have a ‘family care plan’ which designates who will LEGALLY care for the children during a deployment. Being a parent who deploys does NOT make you a bad parent. It means you are a deployed parent….period. My menstrual cycle didn’t change my work ethic, my physical strength or my ability to do my job.Not once in my entire LIFE has a monthly period been a problem in which I could not ‘stay level at all times’… it makes me wonder just what this female author DOES during her menstrual cycle that needs to be ‘ excused’ by her being ‘un-level’?? NOT ONE of the females I deployed with would leave a fallen comrade. never. I might not be able to have tossed all of our male soldiers over my shoulder, but I would have drug each and every one to safety. How do I KNOW? because I trained for it and I did it. I also fired my first round through an M-16 during basic training, and over the course of four years, I became extremely proficient. how? I TRAINED. The military doesn’t KEEP people that don’t learn to fire a weapon well. Many lives depend on that. My weapons training also kept me extremely vigilant as we convoyed through hostile towns…. and believe it or not, being bloated didn’t seem to interfere with scanning my sector while I drove my team through the dark streets.Males and Female’s both need to pee. My anatomy may have made it more DIFFICULT to get my gear undone far enough to allow me to ‘go’, but it did not cause a difference in frequency between the males and females. Changing a tampon in the middle of the Iraqi desert while a soldier pulled guard for me was never on my bucket list. Those male soldiers who guarded me, while my bare butt literally hung in the wind, in the middle of enemy territory, made sure I still have a bucket list to make. It was an odd thing to get used to, but we did it. As far as unit cohesion, my female anatomy had zero effect on who’s life I would save or who’s life I would take. Neither did a single testicle sway my complete and utter faith in the soldier who was to my left or right. We were not men and women. we were SOLDIERS. That is why our nations’ armed forces can do the amazing things we do. We are highly trained, selfless, proud men and women. We are not complainers, whiners and pass-the-buck- ers. The females I have had the honor of serving with, would refer to the author of this preposterous article as ‘one of THOSE females who pulls her ‘female card’ in order to get out of hard or unpleasant work. Fact of the matter is, if I were to be next to HER in a firefight, and she was wounded, I would pick up her bloated, cramping, crying and whining womanly body, sling her over my shoulder and take her to safety. That’s what I was trained to do. I didn’t consider myself a ‘thirty- something, married- to -another- soldier, mother of three, step mom of two…….. GIRL. I was and always will feel like a UNITED STATES SOLDIER.
You BOTH left behind your children? And you expect anyone to consider that a GOOD decision for your children? I know all about the family plan, and if you both left your children then you left them with grandparents and CREATED the opportunity for your kids to lose BOTH their parents – a totally unnecessary decision. Wonderful for you that women’s naturally occurring processes didn’t affect you, but that doesn’t change the fact that it affects a lot of women and can have a negative impact on mission readiness. Despite your screeching, you WEREN’T just soldiers, you were men and women and there is nothing you could ever do to change that. I never pulled “the female card” or excused myself from anything – I worked quadruply hard to never have to ask my fellows to carry my burden for me. And that’s the point of this article – all the training that is very hard on men is much more so on women. Yes, we all get trained, but the women and men have separate standards, and it’s likely that most women if they had to perform to the higher men’s standards wouldn’t even make it into the military. I made it, and I made it at the top of my group. You’re a slave to the movement that has convinced you you’re no different from men and that it’s a GOOD thing for both you and your husband to leave your children behind.
Let me be the 3rd woman on here out of 3 to say that my strength hasn’t been negatively impacted by my cycle. So to say that it does with most women gives me pause. I’ve never served in the military. But I am 100% behind the ones that want to go into combat. There are weak men and there are weak women, there are strong men and strong women. Some small man may not be able to carry someone that is much bigger. And there are plenty of small men (in stature) that serve. And to say that we can’t keep a level head when on cycle is ridiculous. Its all in who you are. I’ve seen men who gossip like old hags and I’ve been around some that are worse that the worst women when on their cycle. It’s all in your own make-up, not your gender. It’s all in how strong your mind is. As for the sex, well again, all men groups have had issues in the past. People, these things can happen no matter who you are. You have to stay professional, if you don’t then face the consequences
Leaving my children while I deployed was not a ‘good thing’. It was a fact. It was a part of the job I dedicated my life to, and I take both parenting and my career seriously. Police officers, Fire fighters, EMT’s, and many other professions put their lives on the line DAILY. This does not make them bad parents. Not even if both mom and dad are in that line of work. It makes them the people who save other mom’s and dads lives.People who save children’s lives. Being deployed isn’t a choice a service member makes. You are not allowed to say ‘oh yes, I want to be a soldier! but um you want me to (gasp) go to WAR?? NO THANKS! IM A MOM!! ” It doesn’t work that way. A TRUE servicemember does the job, regadless of how rotten parts of it are. The men and women, fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers, who do NOT shirk their duty to their country are the very people who give YOU the right to ‘screetch’ ignorance. I would like to suggest that you have a long discussion with an Gynocologist regarding your beliefs in the myths you perpetuate regarding women and their menstrual cycle. I’m sure you will rest easier once you hear the truth. There is strength in knowledge.
There are standards that are different for a male and female. But it lies only in two of the three P.T. test standards. Age also changes these requirements. ( the older you get the more seconds you have on your run time). There has been extensive scientific research done on these issues, and the menstrual cycle does not make any difference. If it did, There would be a standard as to what days a female would be required to take her PT test according to her cycle….. yeah. sounds assnine doesn’t it?
I don’t feel that either sex makes a better soldier across the board. Neither do I feel that all men make top notch military members, nor do their female counterparts. To be good at your job, it takes a multitude of characteristics, personal values, training and abilities.
To allow females ‘on front lines’ is a bit mis leading. Females have often been in direct combat for ages. They brought men food and rendered aid even as far back as the civil war. The issue at hand today is to allow women to be admitted into Special Forces, Navy Seals etc. This would REQUIRE each service member to have the skills, training and qualification to be accepted into the rigorus training program, then to PASS the entire program. If a female can’t do it then she’s physicaly or mentaly incapable. But every service member should be ALLOWED to put forth the hard work and effort to prove they can be a member of these elite teams. Having a vagina would not compromise ‘mission readiness’ or ‘unit cohesion’. Service members such as yourself, who are so increadibly negative, judgemental, insecure and discriminative in attitude, are the very ones who disrupt and destroy a unit and its ability to work well together. A menstrual cycle is not an excuse or a reason for anything other than proof that a female is of child bearing age. A true service member realizes that.
“If a female can’t do it then she’s physicaly or mentaly incapable. But every service member should be ALLOWED to put forth the hard work and effort to prove they can be a member of these elite teams.”
And yet you fail to realize that the military already seperates the sexes physically starting with the PT test; fail to understand/acknowledge the differences in bone density between men and woman as well as muscle structure that allows the heavy loads to be carried with less deterioration within a captured time frame. You also fail to mention that many of these “elite units” spend more than months out in the woods without certain items without which females would suffer from absurdly life threatining infections- even if we just consider the lack of ability to shower; the list goes on. How about some of the schools required for those elite units- such as SERE school. Why don’t you take a second to think of just how a woman can be physically or emotionally compromised while in a hostage/detained/pow status; obviously to some degree the same can happen to a man- but even in that case we wont be bearing children from it.. Once again, the list goes on.
But there is still a large gap between the female standards and the male PT standards. The two PT requirements that are heavily uneven are the run times which measure endurance and the push ups which help measure strength. So explain to me how this is fair? We as men are expected to have anywhere from 30% to 60% more physical capabilities then a woman. I could care less if women are in combat, but when I went through basic training and served in the units over my ten years I saw multitudes of women who could just pass their base level PT standards. There are always a mention able amount of women that exceed even what the men do on their best PT tests, but this has been the minority not the majority. If this world is to be so equal why did the women who sued to allow women in combat not also sue to allow women to register for the draft (selective services) just as we men do? I have been and always will be for equality. But don’t sit here and tell us that we are “equals” when the unequal standards remain the same.
Shame on you Jude! You know the single Marine who left her two boys, is a devoted mother. You also know she turned down a promotion and retired because she was devoted to her boys. Omission of the facts to bolster your article. And thank you for setting women back to “Womens Suffrage” era, over a hundred years, never mind the women in the military who have sacrificed for 70 years.
Does a devoted mother leave two sons with their grandmother to deploy?
How is turning down a promotion AFTER you’d already decided to leave your children to deploy detract at all from my points? It doesn’t. The point was the bad precedent it already sets for single mothers to leave their children in order to deploy when they are the primary care-giver. No female has to deploy to have a very successful and lucrative career. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get them to let you deploy when you’re a single parent – the military doesn’t WANT to send the primary care-giver to the very place where their chances of dying are dramatically increased.
Suffrage? Please! 70 years ago, 70 years from now the biological differences between men and women will still be so – our skeletons are lighter, we have 20% less muscle mass, 20% less respiratory capacity and physical endurance – that’s why NO WOMEN have been able to get past week one of any special forces or infantry training. All well-documented facts from West Point and many more across the globe. That’s the subject of this article – women in combat units. The top men performers in each branch are the ones qualified to go through the rigorous training for infantry and Special Forces. The drop-out rate even for them is astronomical as it is. 10 out of 100 or more make it in these units. Those high standards would have to be lowered to let women in. The head of the joint chiefs of staff as much as said so when he sat next to Leon Panetta and said if women couldn’t make the standards they’d have to look at why those standards are so high.
Thanks you for your service.
I don’t believe she was implying that women can’t make good soldiers, airman, marines, or squids. Or that women can’t be good at their jobs. She was saying the requirements to do these jobs are such that the vast, vast majority of women could not do them.
Simple question to illustrate my point. How many times did you take the APFT under the men’s standards and how many times did you pass it like that?
In rant, you didn’t mention how many times you took the APFT under the men’s standards. You also didn’t mention how many of those people around you without a single testicle in sight took the PT test and passed under the men’s standard. I’m not sure what a TRUE servicemember would feel about lower standards for a combat post, since I’m not sure how you’re defining a TRUE servicemember. You know there are also more requirements to be met besides the PT Test.
The question is not if you are courageous enough to “lay your life on the line”. The question is how many people are going to be put at greater risk to make things “fair” enough for you to get that chance. This should not be considered until the standards are the same. Hopefully the standards won’t be lowered to ensure “fairness” is acheived.
You rock soldiermomof3 .
Soldiermomof3:
I’m glad that you served and were in a PATRIOT unit. Now let me tell you how being in a PATRIOT unit attached to an infantry unit doesn’t constitue the front line. I went from being in the Infantry at Fort Drum to being in a PATRIOT unit on Fort Bliss. They are nowhere close to being the same thing! While in the PATRIOT unit i noticed that they sit in the middle of the desert and do nothing, but watch little ATARI monitors and never see any up close fighting. While in the Infantry for the invasion of Iraq, we went house to house and street to street. Kicking in doors, detaining personnel and engaging in fire fights. These are the situations I believe the author is referring to that may cause most (not all) females trouble. Sitting in the desert on your truck with your air conditioned DRASH tent probably isn’t the difficulty she is referring to.
I must have touched a nerve with you!
I didn’t state that PATRIOT is the ‘same thing’ as Infantry. There is a reason for different M.O.S.’s in each division of the armed forces. Everyone can’t do everything. However, while a unit is deployed, each soldier is EXPECTED to be ABLE and TRAINED to do all of what you mentioned above. Cooks carry a weapon. Females are trained to do hand to hand combat, search and detain prisoners ec.
As for ‘sitting in the desert in my truck with my air conditioned DRASH tent’…. that made me laugh.
How can you be so ignorant as to ASSUME what each and every person did or did not see or experience during a deployment? You claim I ‘never saw any up close fighting’? and you know this how? In order for a PATRIOT unit to guard the air space, it has to GET AHEAD of the other units. There were no ‘safe, underground tunnells’ for us to drive through to get where we were needed. Nobody yelled ‘HEYY STOP SHOOTING!! GIRLS ARE COMING!! STOP DROPPING THOSE BIG LOUD BOMBS ON THE PATRIOT RADAR!’
It’d not a contest as to which unit saw the worst thing, who got shot at the most, or if Infantry is ‘better than’ PATRIOT. Get back to the facts. Women ARE in combat. Women are CAPEABLE of being in combat. Discrimination should not be an issue. Facts are what need to be considered. If a FEMALE can handle it, then her male battle buddy needs to find a way to deal with it or maybe just move to another, less stressfull job.
also Im curious, why did you take what you OBVIOUSLY feel is a ‘demotion’ from Infantry to PATRIOT? couldn’t handle it?
Soldiermomof3:
First off, I don’t know what academic institution you’ve attended but CAPITALIZING a word is an intellectually adolescent maneuver. It’s like yelling a word in the middle of a conversation. Please stop, whatever strength you think it adds to your statement is incorrect.
You said:
“Everyone can’t do everything. However, while a unit is deployed, each soldier is EXPECTED to be ABLE and TRAINED to do all of what you mentioned above. Cooks carry a weapon”
Yes cooks carry a weapon, but they are not expected to shoot while conducting complex combat drills. While there may have been the freak occurrence of a cook bashing down a door and clearing a room, as general statement that is reserved for select MOS, for a reason. Your above statement is entirely untrue, while there are overlaps in MOS, combat arms is distinctly different from the rest of the army.
You said again:
“It’d not a contest as to which unit saw the worst thing, who got shot at the most, or if Infantry is ‘better than’ PATRIOT. Get back to the facts. Women ARE in combat. Women are CAPEABLE of being in combat. Discrimination should not be an issue. Facts are what need to be considered. If a FEMALE can handle it, then her male battle buddy needs to find a way to deal with it or maybe just move to another, less stressfull job.”
“Discrimination should not be an issue. Facts are what need to be considered. If a FEMALE can handle it, then her male battle buddy needs to find a way to deal with it or maybe just move to another, less stressfull job.”
Yes women are in combat, but that doesn’t mean women are operating at the same capacity as a combat arms men are expected to operate at. Yes some men fail to meet that standard as well, but that doesn’t mean we should lower the standard. When lives are a much great risker than simply being in a combat zone, standards should be at their highest.
Discrimination is an issue not because it shouldn’t exist but because facts have proven that men and women subjected to these conditions will create an increase in sexual harassment cases. It’s not a matter of who is responsible for controlling themselves but that statistically if you want fewer sexual harassment cases than you prevent the opportunity for it to start in the first place. A good analogy would be if you want to prevent unwanted pregnancies you would wear a condom (99% effective), and lets say the men and women of the US military are as honorable as you claim (they are not) then sexual harassment will only occur 1% of all interactions. Well abstinence or prohibition from women in combat arms is 100% effective. Is “gender equality” really worth creating a condition that primes unwanted behavior?
Let’s be honest with ourselves is preventing women from joining combat arms gender inequality or strategic observation? Has anyone watched the Olympics? Are you feminists infuriated that women can’t compete against men? No, because if that were the case 99% of competitors would be men since the best women cannot compete against the best men. In combat arms we want the best of the best. While some women can outperform many men, when you get to the higher echelon of competition there is a substantial difference between men and women in this regard.
“Leaving my children while I deployed was not a ‘good thing’. It was a fact.”
Another fact is that your children will have an increase percentage chance of depression, anxiety and mental unstableness due to your life choices. I’m not saying that it’s right or wrong, but that is fact. The removal of parental guidance in a child’s life does promote these unfavorable psychological conditions. Variables include child’s age, and care given by your grandparents.
“Being a parent who deploys does NOT make you a bad parent. It means you are a deployed parent….period.”
It also means that your kids live without a pivotal influence in their lives for an extended period of time, thus, having an impact on their development.
“The men and women, fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers, who do NOT shirk their duty to their country are the very people who give YOU the right to ‘screetch’ ignorance.”
No, actually that would be the first amendment. You countrymen invaded Iraq for alleged WMD (*cough* oil rights/warmongering) and Afghanistan to route the Taliban and install a puppet government. While you can arbitrarily claim that you defended my first right, you never gave it. You’re the only one here screeching ignorance.
“ I would like to suggest that you have a long discussion with an Gynocologist regarding your beliefs in the myths you perpetuate regarding women and their menstrual cycle.”
They are not myths, again simply because you do no experience them does not prove they don’t exist.
“I don’t feel that either sex makes a better soldier across the board. Neither do I feel that all men make top notch military members, nor do their female counterparts. To be good at your job, it takes a multitude of characteristics, personal values, training and abilities.”
Jude’s argument had nothing to do with who is a “top notch” military member, but that as you said the mass majority of women don’t possess the “multitude of characteristics, training and abilities” to make good infantrymen. Due to their indisputable physical nature they cannot perform at the level combat arms are expected to perform unless we lower the standard. Yes there may be an anomaly that can; lowering the standards so that a few anomalies can join their ranks is not a worthwhile tradeoff for all of the negative consequences of such a decision.
“Having a vagina would not compromise ‘mission readiness’ or ‘unit cohesion’.”
Absolutely would, you are naïve to think otherwise. It already does so, and would only be amplified in combat arms conditions.
“might not be able to have tossed all of our male soldiers over my shoulder, but I would have drug each and every one to safety. How do I KNOW? because I trained for it and I did it.”
There is a stark difference between training and the real thing. Claiming you can do something under variables you cannot predict is moronic.
“How do I KNOW? because I trained for it and I did it. I also fired my first round through an M-16 during basic training, and over the course of four years, I became extremely proficient. how? I TRAINED. The military doesn’t KEEP people that don’t learn to fire a weapon well.”
Again training is not the real things. Have you ever worked as a range master? Obviously not, because you would have witnessed how many incompetent soldiers exist in the military, often at senior ranks.
“My weapons training also kept me extremely vigilant as we convoyed through hostile towns”
According to your language you apparently never had to fire your weapon, which means you never operated in combat arms conditions and therefore are making statements about situations you know nothing about. Tell me a story about how you cleared a room and subdued an armed combatant in a room full of civilians and you may earn some credibility. Driving through a dark street in a hostile town in child’s play, do Compton residents deserve purple hearts these days?
“We were not men and women. we were SOLDIERS”
You watch too many Hollywood movies.
I’ll end with this, Jude made an intellectual response to recent changes within the military and you disagreed so you went ahead and formed a rebuttal. Your arguments deteriorated into implying that she is an “untrue” soldier based on your cognitive dissonance. Your digression into adolescent name calling is a reflection of your intellectual incompetence to see the truth in her points and respond in a respectful manner. You may be offended because you don’t like the implications of her response, but your inability to counter point and remain mature is a poor reflection of your character. Its people like you who make me disgusted about the organization I once served in. Your intolerance for difference and reason stemmed from ignorance creates public policies that diminish the United States of America.
What the author also left out is…she has a brother who is special needs…so she has her own personal opinion and agenda hidden in her comments. Sadly, she omitted, the female who left her two sons (one autistic) turned down 1stSgt to keep from deploying, because of her kids and retired for the same reasons. Or quit her civilian job that she loved and enjoyed, to take care of her autistic son. She drives him to college, over an hour one way 4 days a week. She knew those facts, but omitted all of them in order to slant the article in her favor. Her comments border on slanderous! She also left out that the combat wounded female stayed with her Marines in-spite of her injuries! The author is entitled to her opinion, but it is dangerous when she is given such a platform and abuses it. This article is far from being an unbiased and objective article.
Oh please, Gunny, stop with the subterfuge tactics. My brother being autistic has nothing to do with the problems of women in combat, so enough with posting this over and over again. You obviously can’t have an adult discussion on the very real problems of women being in combat units, and you left your two sons to deploy and you must justify that decision as a good one. You’re the one with an agenda, I’m just talking about what I know and what I observed and it’s all verifiable.
For someone who claims to have made all of these tough decisions, you get OFFENDED rather easy.
I think you’re missing the point that Jude is making. This isn’t about whether women lose half of their strength during menstration, or how extreme their cramps get during their cycle. What Jude is pointing out are the numerous reasons why the unit cohesion required for a combat arms unit is jeapordized by opening the field to women. That is the point; and she has articulated it rather well. You’re taking a lot of this personal (which kinda proves her point).
Yes, if you and your husband left your children at home to both deploy at the same time, that was a stupid decision. I’m not about to claim that police, fire, and EMS work isn’t dangerous, but the old quote is “war is hell” means just that. It doesn’t read “walking the beat is hell.” Your comparison of the two is.. ignorance.
You weren’t assigned to an Infantry unit, you were attached to an Infantry unit. If you were attached to my unit, and you openly claimed to be assigned to my unit, in front of me, ooh girl. You would be screaming for un-attachment pretty quick.
Jude, great article. I think the reason this has become a question in our society is that the role of women as the bearer of children has been diminished. By diminished, I mean that women aren’t respected and appreciated for their role in the human life cycle as much as they should. Men have traditionally been the Soldiers. Women have always born the children. Being a Soldier is socially popular right now, which is why we’re having this discussion about women in combat arms units. What we’re forgetting is the much more important role that women play in our human existance. That is – without them, we wouldn’t continue. This is why it’s such a divisive subject. Many of us aren’t ready to see our women come home in coffins at the same rate our men do – or worse should world-wide conflict escalate. Women bear our children, and that’s more prescious than anything I can imagine while sitting at this computer.
As a female soldier that has been in Afghanistan and stayed outside the wire 80% of my deployment and seen it all. I feel that there are some very valid points in this article. And when you other females are on here bashing her for her opinion you aren’t seeing the bigger picture. I may not agree with her opinion on what makes a good parent but that isn’t the highlight of the article. And you may not have bad periods but that is you. I’m moody as all get out and have a lot less energy during my time. And that’s because we are all different. Yall are wasting your time getting all offended by petty crap on here to realise what is true. We may not like the truth but it is what it is. The standards are different because they need to be. There hasn’t been an open slot for females in combat arms since 1775 why start now? Let the Army be, its like that for a reason. And it doesn’t make men better then females, it just means men were made to do different things then females.
Fabulous job at setting your own gender back to the 1950′s when they were secondary to men in the workplace. You are obviously what is wrong with women in the military. When we we enlist we take the risk of leaving our kids behind, and many of us do. My child is proud of her ‘mommy’ for fighting bad guys to keep her safe. Also, speaking as a women who could perform to the men’s standard for PT, I am not the weaker sex. If you think the separate standard is unfair and do not want to get called out on it, then step up (that is assuming you are even in the military still)! I am not weaker beccause I get a period and it can be avoided using birth control. I don’t turn into a hormonal, blithering mess when I have it like you apparently do. I haven’t ever started weeping or crying when someone has been hurt or killed. As far as pregnancy and sexual harassment, guess what? IT TAKES TWO! If a man can’t keep it in his pants, that is not just the woman’s fault. Way to pass blame on all the women, you are a disgrace of one for saying that all of us are weaker just because you are. Do us all a favor and get out now before you set us back another decade. I have worked with men all the time overseas, and it isn’t made an issue of unless you make it one. I was a combat medic and got nothing but respect from my men, the problems you had were obviously on you.
Good lets have ONE PT STANDARD that way there will be only about 300 females in the military. Lets MAKE IT FAIR have all women sign up for the selective service because you think your a bad ass.
Agreed.
i agree one APFT standard lets see how many can hack it
amarie86, quit screeching. Acknowledging the factual differences between the sexes doesn’t put anyone back anywhere, I’m just telling the truth, and all men and women know it. Do a search on PMS and you’ll find over 900 entries backing up everything I’m talking about. No amount of screaming will make women as strong as men. If your child is proud of you for putting him or her second to your career, good for you. Women being in the combat zone is not the same as women being in combat units, and that is the whole point of this series. You can see the other parts where I get into the fact that women are in the combat zone having trained on a lower standard than the men, or part 3 where I get into the shocking and unacceptable prevalence of sexual assault which would be worsened by opening the combat units to women. You can lie to yourself and brush off the differences, but when a woman gets pregnant she has to be sent home because she can’t do her job anymore. Women leave the combat zone at 3 times the rate of men and 75% of the time due to pregnancy. 10% of active duty women have unintended pregnancies. I never got pregnant, I was never disrespected and that’s because of my ethics. Talking about the issues seen in women already deploying doesn’t mean I was one of those issues. You just can’t stand the truth.
Are we sure this wasn’t written by a dude? The menstruation and medical arguments seem laughably inaccurate. Depending on the birth control you use, you may not even have a cycle which I found a bonus in the field – it seems such an archaic argument. This is one woman’s perspective and while it may be valid for her it shouldn’t be forced on all womankind. Just like there are plenty of men who could never make it in a combat unit, there are few women who could. I will say, the author could of done herself better justice and appeared more credible by sticking to what she knows and not speculating in areas where she is clearly ignorant; specifically her medical diagnosis and commentary on women in the Navy (change course, really?). Also, I think it is unfair to undermine a father’s value in the family – spouse/children miss them when they leave the family too. Finally the arguments used against pregnancy and relationships in the workplace can easily be applied to the civilian work environment, so I guess women shouldn’t work there either. Repealing the combat exclusion policy is an acknowledgment of reality, women have been and are in combat – it is absurd to pretend they are not. What it doesn’t mean is that the floodgates are now open for any woman to join any and every elite combat unit. It is ashame that even vets don’t get that.
If you think these arguments, which aren’t medical, they’re common sense, are inaccurate, then you are the one who’s ignorant. What if you don’t use birth control? There is nothing archaic about the physical differences in men and women – these differences are permanent and political policy can’t change human nature. The highest performing woman is no match for any of the men who make it into Special Forces and combat units, so saying there are some women who can best men who wouldn’t even make it past bootcamp is just making my argument for me. There is no woman who is better than the men in the special forces, that’s why they won’t test women on those standards – they don’t even make it past the first week of training. As for the Navy, what exactly do you think happens when a woman gets pregnant on ship? You think she stays there and has the baby while the rest are trying to complete the mission? Now THAT’s ignorant. As for your other straw-man of pregnant women in the workplace – no one is arguing that women shouldn’t be in the military or the civilian world. The military is NOT the civilian workplace – it exists to fight and win war which of course we all know pregnant women can’t do. Repealing the combat unit restrictions is opening all the current problems with women deploying that are already not being adequately dealt with. Not to mention it will kill combat effectiveness. Then again, anyone with common sense knows this.
Ahem. http://englishrussia.com/2012/03/08/outstanding-soviet-female-snipers-of-wwii/
‘Nuff said.
terrible argument.
This is by far the most infuriating article I have read on this topic, and the fact that it was written by a woman baffles me. I am a woman, I am commissioning into the Air Force in May, I can score a 99 according to MALE physical fitness standards (ON MY PERIOD OR NOT), I can ride 12 hours without stopping to pee (If men use a bottle, so can I), I can work with men without being sexually attracted, I can be professional enough to focus on the mission only, I can get deployed without having sex and getting pregnant, and, if I had kids and I WANTED TO, I could leave them with their FATHER while deployed. As someone else already commented, “Fabulous job at setting your own gender back to the 1950′s.”
A 99 is equivalent to a man’s 70. It’s called gender norming and it’s already been exposed in practically every branch. You still wouldn’t make it past week one of any special forces boot camp in any If you are entering the Air Force then you will find out the lower standards that will enable you to feel like you’re doing the same thing the men are. You’re not. And if you think you can be with men without being attracted or without them being attracted to you, you’re again lying to yourself. You are not a robot and neither are they. And if you’re gay and that’s why you’re not attracted to men, all the relationship pitfalls of resentment, jealousy and harassment still apply. Nothing can change human passion, and when men and women get together in close quarters, nature takes it’s course and nothing you say will ever change that.
Jude, if even read my comment, I said I can get a 99 according to male standards. I can run a mile and a half in 8:45, try and keep up with me. I don’t need a special standard, I don’t “feel like I’m doing the same thing men are,” I actually AM doing the same thing men are. I’m sorry you don’t believe that men and women can work together without having sex. That’s literally the stupidest claim I’ve ever heard. It’s called professionalism, read about it. I don’t want to reproduce with every man I see, sorry you cannot control your urges. Seems like a personal problem. Again, thank you for setting women back to the 1950′s. Your generalizations about all women are beyond offensive.
-PS: I casually ran a mile in 5:50 while on my period last week. So much for losing half my strength.
The stupidest claim you’ve ever hear is verified in every unit where women and men serve, but don’t let the facts getcha. You’re still no match for the men in combat units and the special forces, and your personal insults say more about you than me – I didn’t fraternize, but the fact that you try to argue it never happens just shows the absurdity of what you’re trying to argue. You are not doing the same thing men are IN THE COMBAT UNITS. No woman has been able to make it past week one of their training. And where one woman in the world might be able to complete Navy SEALs training, that’s where all the problems we currently experience come into play destroying combat effectiveness. If you don’t understand these issues, you will make a terrible officer indeed.
First, proofread before you post things. Second, I did not mean to come off sounding like I think fraternizing never happens. I realize it does-by both men and women. All I’m saying is that not every single person has the urge to do it, and no offense but if a person can’t control their urges to put the mission first then perhaps they should try a different career field. Also, I believe that less than .5% of women in the military would be qualified by male standards (if not a smaller number), but those women should be given a chance. Personally, I do not want to serve in a combat role. But if I wanted to, was qualified to, and worked hard enough to, I should be given a chance. Last, if believing that some women my gender have the ability to serve in combat and not fraternize will make me a bad officer, then so be it.
Believing that some women don’t fraternize is totally irrelevant. Just like we’re not talking about the men who don’t make it into special forces, we’re not talking about the women who don’t get pregnant, but the women who do, and they are already leaving their units in the combat zone at 3 TIMES the rate of men. You will not be able to ignore that when you’re in charge of a platoon. You will never be able to stop people from having sex, and women get pregnant. If that’s your platoon sergeant in a combat unit, you’ve suddenly lost leadership for something that has nothing to do with combat. The mission will suffer, your people will suffer. But you’ll still be believing in unicorns and rainbows. And these are just some of the ethical and practical problems that we’re ALREADY facing with women deploying. You want to put them altogether where they’re dressing and bathing in close quarters with no protection for the women – less protection than they have now in coed units. There are so MANY reasons not to do this that have nothing to do with a woman’s ability and whether or not she can pass the Marine Infrantry Officer course. That’s why this is a 4 part series and you can read the other parts here:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-problems-of-women-in-combat-part-2/
http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-problems-of-women-in-combat-part-3/
http://www.westernjournalism.com/let-the-men-be-heroes-because-they-are/
I’m sure you’ll disagree with much of it, but your disagreement won’t change the facts any more than your ignoring them will help you as an officer.
Good Luck Yoak…I wish you much success.
Here’s my question: How do the Israelis do it? Isn’t it true that more than 90 percent of all positions in the Israeli military are available to women, a proportion exceeded only by Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland? I understand that Israel has about 10 combat units that have significant female participation. Then there’s Nachshol Reconnaissance Company, the first composed entirely of female combat soldiers. Nachshol serves primarily in the south, providing field intelligence along the Egyptian border. Then there’s Caracal, the most high-profile mixed-gender combat unit. It is tasked with guarding Israel’s border with Egypt. Women play key combat roles in infantry, armored and field-intelligence units in Israel. In 2000 an amendment to the Israeli Military Service law made it official that any position open to men should be equally available to women, spurring a process of integration into combat roles. So……?
“I understand the will to fight. I joined the Marines in the hopes of deploying because I believe that fighting jihadists is right. And I care about the women and children in Islamic countries where they are denied their rights, subjugated, mutilated, and murdered with impunity; and where children are molested and raped with impunity (not to mention defending our own freedom against these hate-filled terrorists who want to destroy freedom-loving countries like America.)”
Fighting for women’s rights is neither our mission or our mandate. It is not even on the table. We went into Iraq in 2003 due to WMD’s, we went in to Afghanistan for reasons more like you describe. However, changing the status of women is Islam has never been part of our strategy, nor our concern regardless of what some people have implied.
While I wasn’t crazy about the rest of your assertions, you’re welcome to your opinion and you may have some valid points even if i think you want to take women back to barefoot and pregnant homemakers. However, the desire to free the women and children from Islam is ridiculous to the point of lunacy.
I never said my reasons for joining or deploying were the same as the military’s mandates in executing war. I had many reasons for joining, and I joined wanting to deploy. The idea that keeping women out of combat units renders women back to barefoot and pregnant (which, by the way, is a total fallacy promoted by Betty Friedan and the like who were terrible wives and mothers and couldn’t cope with their situation, so they turned their failures into societal problems) is utterly stupid, it’s not even an argument.
As a female combat veteran, who served in combat with many other females, 2 of whom received Purple Hearts for their valor- there is no way a woman wrote this article.
Liberty, When did they start giving out Purple Heatrs with a V device?
Liberty, Sadly a female Marine! I too have a Purple Heart, the mother of two sons, one of which is autistic! I also stayed with my Marines in-spite of my wounds!
Very well said Jude, that really hit home and made great sense. Its really too bad that there are so many ignorant and stubborn people out there that dont want to face the facts, that just want to prove a point, or prove that they can do something. Not that they cant physically do it, because im sure there are some that can, but thats not what this is about. Thats not what winning wars for this country is about. Well disciplined militaries are the ones that win wars, and I dont mean that by saying women arent displined if anything they may be better disiplined then men. Its just the fact they just keep bending the rules. I just wonder if there is ever going to be a time where they draw the line. At least for the sake of this country. Whatever happens I just like to have faith in my country and core, and that the right desicions are made, not just to make everyone happy, because this is really really serious business!!!!
When we start holding woman to the same standard as we expect our men to uphold then they can join the front line.
As the writer said, women can’t do the same thing men do. Nothing wrong with that. It’s simple a matter of physiology.
I personally agree with most everything that this article talks about.
I am a 31 year old mother, wife / E6 Squad Leader in a FSC for an Infantry BN. I have been in the Army for 9 years and served in Iraq twice. First time I conducted convoy operations as a mechanic and the second time I worked on a prison facility and conducted detainee operations. I have been in the middle of fire fights, I’ve had to recover many disabled vehicles because of IED’s worried about secondary devices or small arms fire, I have been mortared, and I am not in a Combat MOS or company. Those experiences are just a fraction of what you would go through if you did hold a Combat MOS. I have trained with mostly men, deployed with mostly men and currently work in a government facility with all men. The men that I have worked with all treat me like one of the guys, but that is my personality. I have always been able to hang with the best of them. Most of my comrades call me” The Alpha Female”. I have trained with an Infantry platoon, scaling walls, ruck marches, jumping through windows, clearing rooms ect. But that was training not real life. I have a 300 APFT female scale, with that I know without a doubt that I would be able to pass male standard APFT easily. I am always at least a sharp shooter with my M4. I train hard and I am dedicated to the mission and my duty. I love taking care of and mentoring Soldiers. I have a passion for what I do.
Now with that being said let’s be honest: Was I able to train to the same capacity of those Male Infantry Soldier? No I was not, I needed help even though I thought I was in shape and I can get a 300 on my APFT, I did not have the same upper body strength that I needed to get though those second floor windows. I was not able to complete a 4 mile ruck march with 50lbs on my back without taking a break. I did not move as fast with my 40lbs of protective equipment on, holding my weapon at the low ready with ammo through those urban environments. My mind was strong but my body could not keep up. And that was just training!!! Not real life not real stress!
So to comment on the over talked about menstrual cycle, first of all for all of you that claim you don’t have any symptoms you are on crack! I am a pretty strong woman but when it comes time for Aunt Flow, I get cramps like a mother, emotional, head aces and I do get tired. But who are we to compare what it would be like to experience this if we had an all out Combat Mission as an Infantry Soldier, we have never done it, nor do we actually know what it would be like! And I had to giggle at the thought of some woman saying they can hold their pee as long as men, well I used to be able to, but I had a child now I can laugh, sneeze or cough and pee a little. And that is not a good thing if I can’t shower because I am on a Combat mission.
OK so yes I do believe that there would be a very small percentage of women that would be great. As for the rest well there is a difference in Thinking you would be great and actually being great. More power to you if you want to give it a try I truly hope you succeed!!
Bottom line is I think everyone needs to take a step back look at themselves in the mirror and ask the question “Could I really do it?” and be honest, put your pride aside and look at all aspects of the Mission at hand and what you are really capable of doing.
Here is a list of combat tasks a woman can do–consequently they have been doing them in places like Iraq
and Afghanistan for a while-
*Drive trucks/ refuel trucks/ work as a mechanic on forward operating bases or combat outposts.
*”Man” the .50 cal or minigun on uparmored hummers, or work the automated RG-31′s-mine resistant vehicles gun systems.
*Working at checkpoints, pulling security on the gate, jobs that require standing with basic Load Bearing Equipment and body armor for a few hours, then being relieved.
*Work in hostile areas as Military Policewomen, performing all tasks the MP’s do, checking cars for vehicle born IED’s, more checkpoint duty,pulling security after operations, or IED attacks, etc.
*Working as nurses or doctors/dental at FOB’s or COP’s
*Fly any type of Aircraft/ or work as flight crew on any type of aircraft.
As you can see, there is a host of jobs that any American can be proud of performing while in harm’s way.
Here’s a list of jobs in the Military that MOST women, who aren’t world class heptathletes, CANNOT do.
*Carrying 80 lbs of body armor “kit” with 3 frag grenades, 6x40MM grenades, 6 flashbangs, 6 x 30 round mags, first aid kit, tourniquet, camel back, radio,antenna, extra batteries, flashlight, dagger, and a compass ALONG WITH a 130lb rucksack, with 3 gallons of water, 6x radio batteries, 5 x100 round boxes of 240B .308 ammo, 6 extra M-4 mags, extra socks, t-shirt, 6 x rat F’d MRE bags, a satellite radio with antenna, 2x breaching charges, and an AT-4 strapped to the top. OH, and you have to carry your weapon-M-4 weighs 8 lbs, SAW weighs around 15 lbs, 240B weighs about 22lbs.
A two hundred pound man, carrying his weight plus this load, weighs over 420 pounds. In order to perform the job, the operator has probably trained for 2-3 years carrying this type of load around-in places like Ft Benning (Ranger BN) Fort Bragg (SF or Detachment Alpha guys) or one of the two SEAL training areas.
Find a woman who can do this exact job and she’ll get my respect and my vote to work in the special operations community. Please do not lower the physical standards to appease some political whim or complete a social experiment. The men who work in special operations almost always take a physical disability away from their service, usually hip, knee,neck, or back related. There is no other way around it, their job is among the most physically demanding in the world. I am sure, even after reading this, that some
women will be defiant and say they can do it. There are some who can, and to them I say good luck.
De Oppresso Liber.
This whole article has got to be a joke. The sexism is so utterly blatant that is makes me a little sick.
For one, the article discusses the fact that women are leaving behind their children to go to war, and specifically states a woman who has a special needs child to try and invoke a sympathy card on that front. Men have been doing this for years. But all of a sudden it’s dangerous and makes you a terrible parent to leave your child to go fight for your country…. when men have been doing it since the dawn of time.
For two, let’s talk about the having sex and getting pregnant thing. Okay, maybe a valid excuse for women, because I can understand how that would be problematic to have to change course and missions. But for gay men and women? They can’t get pregnant. SO in this we want to put no blame on the straight man for having sex/getting someone pregnant. We just want to keep his “temptations” out of the way. You don’t want sex in the army? Then you’re going to have to build robots because as the author pointed out, humans will be humans, whether they are gay or straight. Whether there are women or gay men around. Whether they are willing or not.
and for three, the menstrual cycle is an old argument that is really just becoming annoying. You have no way of knowing how a woman is going to react on her period until you are around that woman on her period. Since the army can’t regulate your period, chances are you would already be employed in the military when people got the chance to see how you react on your period. If a woman is willing to put up with how hard it may or may not be and it still doesn’t affect the job and task at hand, then you have no right to tell her otherwise. Also, there are many men in the army who are alcoholics, have PTSD, or some other mental illness that has yet to be diagnosed. This also affects your mood and your stability of mind a lot more than me having my normal period every month that I have had since I was 13 years old.
So again, I call BS on this article because there is no way any person could be this utterly ignorant when developing her argument as to why we should keep the women in our military from ever reaching a higher position in the army that would require combat positions.
So when I’ve been outside the wire for months on and and can barely keep food and water and ammo, were supposed to give up cargo space for “essential feminine items” so we does lose a warfighter? this argument is so stupid and you don’t even realize it. Real fighting- in austere environments, not within a day of a fob, is tough even on the health and hygiene of men. What do you think it will do to a woman. TSS for example. Or with one who has no cycle due to pills- even if we can keep them available, just general infections.
Happy, FYI the author knowingly omitted facts…she has a brother who is special needs…so she has her own personal opinion and agenda hidden in her comments. Sadly, she omitted, the female who left her two sons (one autistic) turned down 1stSgt to keep from deploying, because of her kids and retired for the same reasons. Or quit her civilian job that she loved and enjoyed, to take care of her autistic son. She drives him to college, over an hour one way 4 days a week. She knew those facts, but omitted all of them in order to slant the article in her favor.
So nice to hear WOMEN voicing their opinions on these issues! Here’s another perspective.
http://hersideofhero.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-problems-of-women-in-combatand-then.html
And here’s another, slightly more comedy-focused response to this article.
http://hersideofhero.blogspot.com/2013/02/part-deux-problem-with-women-in-combat.html
Herside:
I responded directly to your blog, but you have apparently chosen not to allow the comment.
You state: “Lastly, I have to point out the almost painfully obvious fact that women (Female Badass is a great example) are already in combat. They are fighting and dying in combat today, and have actually already been doing so for years. Secretary Panetta has simply made it official.”
While mostly a true statement, I believe it is an attempt to make a point in a dishonest way. Many use this line without addressing the falseness in it. You, being an Officer in the armed forces, know women are not in the combat MOS’s that are being opened by his move. Nothing unofficially going on in the services right now has been made “official” with this move by Panetta, as there are no women in the positions he proposes to open. None. Zero. It is nothing but a flashy way to insinuate to people who are ignorant of the situation that women are already performing the same tasks men are, but are just not being recognized for it.
Women have made great soldiers in many different fields…From being combat pilots to being a truck driver driving in a war with no front lines. Those jobs have different physical requirements than a Infantry Mortarman, as an example. As you point out in your blog, “the success of many jobs in the military does not depend on one’s physical capability.”
—The jobs females have been barred from do, though.—
Another thing you, as an officer in the military, should now. Perhaps you are not confronted with it as much being in the Air Force, but you should still be aware of it. So I also feel this is a bit dishonest of you. Please don’t misunderstand and think I am poking fun at the Air Force, it’s just that the AF does not have as many combat related jobs that require the physicality as some of the other branches.
You do think that women trying to get into these fields should have to meet the same standards as the men. I agree…but there is much more to it than that.
What happens when a female fails to meet the standards? Most likely she would then be removed from the combat jobs and re-classed to another MOS where she could then attempt to meet the lower female PT standards. The men will be kicked out of the service if they fail to meet the PT standards. Do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollars…just get out. Is this the kind of equality we are looking for? Will this breed good Esprit De Corps? Will we lower the standards for non combat jobs so that men and women are treated “fairly”? That way men failing to meet the standards can be shuffled off to a paper pusher job or a job that doesn’t require meeting the standards, just like the females.
I hope it will not cause the standards to be lowered in order to allow more “participation”….for men or women. You talk about finance positions in your post, and how the PT standards seem to be meaningless for that position. The Armed Forces is not some bank on the corner of an intersection in Suburbia. You may be expected at some time to put down your pencil, pick up your gun, and rush to battle positions. You may be attacked because the convoy you’re riding in got lost and took a wrong turn into an ambush. That’s why we have PT standards and that bank doesn’t.
All the good intentions in the word can’t change genetics. What happens when only a few make it? Do we spend a ridiculous amount of money to allow for a few? No coed open bays, so we need separate sleeping arrangements, more showers, latrines…and so on. That’s just for Garrison. How many need to make it in order to make it reasonable? Has any of this been thought out, or did Panetta just decide to throw this bomb out there?
You state: “My main problem with Female Badass’s line of logic is “the best woman is still no match for the best man.” True, but so what?” –Sounds like Hillary Clinton’s “What difference does it make” line.
So what is that when you are getting shot at on the backside of nowhere, you want the best person possible beside you…not someone who was “good enough” to be shoved in there to meet a quota.
Bubba, Hopefully the higher ups will take their standard from the screening for MARSOC
United States Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command. The Corps is already putting in an infrastructure to help with the transition. This is going to happen, regardless of public opinion. These women deserve our support, without lowered standards!
The author of the article omitted that she had her own personal “female” medical issues, while deployed. “No one wants to talk about the fact that in the days before a woman’s cycle, she loses half her strength,” Seriously?! I am a retired female Marine and a former DI. Never, ever, have me nor any female Marine that I have ever come in contact with, had such an issue! Where is the documentation to back up the facts of her statement? “And how would you like fighting through PMS symptoms while clearing a town or going through a firefight?” Just because one woman can’t hack the rigors of a combat environment, doesn’t mean all women can’t! What the author also left out is…she has a brother who is special needs…so she has her own personal opinion and agenda hidden in her comments. Sadly, she omitted, the female who left her two sons (one autistic) turned down 1stSgt to keep from deploying, because of her kids and retired for the same reasons. Or quit her civilian job that she loved and enjoyed, to take care of her autistic son. She drives him to college, over an hour one way 4 days a week. She knew those facts, but omitted all of them in order to slant the article in her favor. Her comments border on slanderous! She also left out that the combat wounded female stayed with her Marines in-spite of her injuries! The author is entitled to her opinion, but it is dangerous when she is given such a platform and abuses it. This article is far from being an unbiased and objective article.
Hy Gunny, it’s interesting reading your totally dishonest comments. What does my brother being autistic have to do with the problems of women in combat units? Absolutely nothing, so your point about some other agenda other than sharing the facts that I observed in the Marine Corps and while on deployment are belied by your own defensiveness about your choices. To say you never saw anyone affected by PMS is absolute BS, and to feign this shock about the existence of PMS symptoms is totally laughable. Do a search on PMS symptoms and you’ll find nearly A THOUSAND entries on what these symptoms are and how many different remedies are sought out for them. I didn’t omit anything about you, I included what you told us in various speeches to the public. I had no knowledge of you supposedly turning down 1stSgt, and that doesn’t detract from my point. You left both your sons to deploy, you publicly spoke of that promoting the book “Band of Sisters,” so it’s not private knowledge. I didn’t omit anything of which I knew so stop trying to mislead readers. The fact that you stayed with your Marines after being injured is for you a point of pride. You mentioned it at every book promotion in which you participated. Meanwhile your sons were at home with their grandma. I don’t claim a lack of bias, I have written what I observed and what I know. Many of my fellow female Marines and I have talked about the issues women face being in the military and deploying. We all know what’s true. Many other women who’ve been in the military have responded here in kind. I don’t claim that every women experiences PMS to the degree that it interferes with every single person’s ability to perform according to military standards, I merely call attention to it because it’s a reality we have to deal with and one that needs more serious consideration when talking about putting women in combat units. But all of this is stated very clearly. You are the only one trying to mislead anyone in order to justify your own decisions.
“Because it provides me with the means to support my family.”
I can’t think of a worse way to support my family. The pay is as bad as being on welfare and one must be away from the family with the possibility of getting injured or killed! A mother should be raising her children, not fighting a war in some foreign country! Even a man with a wife and family has a hard time being away from his wife and kids in some God forsaken country fighting an enemy he can’t recognize as his enemy most of the time.
“but so is my career” fighting a war is the most career limiting job on the planet! Now, if one loves their country more than their own children, then so be it! A bit hard to understand though!