Good for these brave souls…
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It”s not his birth, you idiots.
It’s his relinquishment of American citizenship, proved by not registering with Selective Service in 1979 and re-entering the United States on his Indonesian passport as Barry Soetoro with a student visa from the American Embassy in Jakarta in 1981.
Had he intended to retain American citizenship in the face of his Indonesian naturalization, he would have committed a federal felony.
Had he retained his American citizenship, he would not have needed a visa to re-enter the United States.
He can’t be a “natural born Citizen” under Article II Section 1 of the United States Constitution when he is no longer a “Citizen” at all.
When your own family doesn;t tell you of our birth in Toepka KS noor the name of your real dad murdered in a racial attack on the banks of the Knsas River, then you are in limbo. Orly Tiatz could have ended this and still v\can by asking for thecourt order for the Topeka KS records.
I appreciate your commenta, but please do us a favor and use spell check.
chill out man
OK You must be scholar or English teacher. Some people aren’t as smart as you. You must use teleprompter like Obummer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He can’t spell either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama was born in the USA, in Hawaii (as shown overwhelmingly by his birth certificate and the confirmation of the officials of both parties and the Index Data and the birth notices sent to the Hawaii newspapers by the DOH of Hawaii in 1961 and the Hawaii teacher who wrote home about it). And it is his birth in the USA, his place of birth, that makes him a Natural Born Citizen. That is because the US Supreme Court ruled in the Wong Kim Ark case (which btw was AFTER Minor v. Happersett) that the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the PLACE of birth, not to the citizenship of the parents of a US-born citizen.
And Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia and never had an Indonesian passport, as a simple telephone call to the Indonesian Embassy in Washington will confirm.
Oh, and Obama never applied to college as a foreign student. That story came from an April Fool’s article.
A fake Birth Certificate does not prove anything other than he is a liar and can’t be trusted.
It is not fake. Only Birther “experts” claim that it is fake, and they have not shown that they are even experts, and they CERTAINLY have not shown that they are fair and impartial. Those are two reasons why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and the National Review do not believe them. There are many real experts who say that Obama’s birth certificate is not forged, including John Woodman, a member of the Tea Party, who hates Obama’s policies but has concluded that the birther “experts” are making up their claims. And the fact that Obama has a real birth certificate from Hawaii has been repeatedly confirmed by the officials of BOTH parties, including the former Republican governor (who is a friend of Sarah Palin’s), and also confirmed by the public Index Data file, and also confirmed by the birth notices sent to the Hawaii newspapers in 1961 by the DOH of Hawaii, and also confirmed by the Hawaii teacher who wrote home to her father, named Stanley, after hearing of the birth in Hawaii of a child to a woman named Stanley.
For a good discussion of the subject see:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/12/so-you-think-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
No, sir. Simply being born in the USA might make him a “citizen.” However, a “natural born citizen” requires something more than simply being plopped out of the birth canal and first touching Mother Earth in the USA. Did you notice the extra two words, natural born? Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen. Here is a hint: They are not the same…
Re the difference between a citizen and a Natural Born Citizen. Answer: No Problem. A citizen can include two types of citizen, Natural Born Citizens and naturalized citizens. However, the category Natural Born Citizen does not included naturalized citizens. Therefore a naturalized citizen cannot become president, but a Natural Born Citizen can. That is the only difference. A Natural Born Citizen is simply a US citizen at birth, by far most of whom are US-born. They become Natural Born Citizens due simply to their place of birth. There are only two categories of citizen: naturalized and natural born. If the two-parent theory were true, there would have to be three categories: naturalized, citizen at birth due to place of birth, and citizen at birth with two US parents. (NBC under the two-parent theory). But the two-parent theory is not correct. The meaning of Natural Born really does come from the common law, as the US Supreme Court held in the Wong Kim Ark case, and it really does refer to the place of birth, not to the citizenship of the parents of a US-born citizen.
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are “natural born citizens” eligible to serve as President …”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Do you see any mention of parents in the above?
His maternal grandmother is responsible for the Hawaii records.my mother took Ann, his mother to Forbes Air force base hospital in Topeka Ks to have him. Her relatives at Westboro Baptist church seem to have everyone terrified for 50+ years.and now can you begin to understand the fear that prompted the fake bio after three dead including the President’s DAd.
Hawaii birth filed by others . His real birth record is from Topeka Ks and if Orly Taitz had asked for court order basck in 9/12 as I asked herto dothis would all be over and resolved as Hawaii was done by Fall of 1963.
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen and never had an Indonesian passport, as a telephone call to the Indonesian Embassy in Washington will confirm.
Thanks for this info as it was the only bit I was never privy to. But the Knsas birth record may have been changed to Soetoro if used for the adoption if that really did occur, I have no reason to doubt it as real Dad dead. But so many don’t realize that citizensip isa federal action and buirth records state. And i rember correctly, one had until a certain age to choose a ccuntry when parents not of same.
@ellen; Obama was adopted when he was six years old by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen. Barry was raised in Indonesia and attended public school there. International Law stipulates that when a child is adopted that child assimilates the nationality of the adoptive father. Indonesian law disallows non-citizen children from attending public school.
Getting desperate? What the hell do you know about “international law?” Here are the FACTS:
There is no proof whatever that Obama was adopted. Yes, he used his step-father’s name, but I used an Asian name when I lived in Asia too, and I was not adopted and I did not change my name legally. There is no proof of Obama being adopted, and there easily would be if he were because it requires the action of a district court. And, most importantly, Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. NEVER. You can check that fact out for yourself by calling the Indonesian Embassy in Washington (ask for the Press Officer).
@eingriff;
You make some valid points. In my humble opinion this issue of the document we call a birth certificate is simply a diversion. It is not the issue regarding meeting the requirement of Article 2. It does not matter if it is a valid birth certificate. It does not matter if Obama was born in Hawaii. He could have been born on the White House Lawn with News coverage of the event.
Those persons that authored the Constitution were very adamant about excluding foreign influence over our government. They discussed in depth among themselves what constituted the requirement to be Commander-In-Chief and President. No foreigners, no foreign influence. Let’s look at the facts. Obama’s father was not a citizen and never even wanted to be one. Obama was adopted as a very young child by an Indonesian and moved to Indonesia. He was schooled in Indonesia, where only citizens could attend public school.
I can’t wait to hear from ellen, who is a loud and persistent apologist for Obama, or Soetoro, whichever name he prefers. Those of us that do not believe a conspiracy in our government could ever happen have ignored the entire history of the World. It is the height of lunacy to simply say, “It could never happen here.” When it comes to politics I have seen too many instances of blatant disregard for the benefit of the citizens of this country to trust any federal elected officials; either Party.
So much proof he is not a American citizen. All his papers he release is showing Fraud.
Only birther “experts”—who have not shown that they are even experts, and who certainly have not shown that they are fair and impartial—claim that there is anything wrong with Obama’s birth certificate. Those are two reasons why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and the National Review do not believe the birther “experts.”
More reasons:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/12/so-you-think-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
His birth certificate, whether valid or not, isn’t the issue. His father was not a citizen of the USA. Hence, Obama obtained his father’s nationality. If he, in fact, was born in Hawaii, he is a dual citizen and does not meet the Natural Born Citizen stipulation of the Constitution. John Jay, the 1st Supreme Court Justice of the USA wrote Article Two of the Constitution. His writings and the discussion between the founders of the Nation did not want anyone to be POTUS that had any allegiance to any foreign nation.
History is an interesting subject, if only we would study it and learn the facts.
The meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth. There is no reference to dual citizenship affecting Natural Born Citizen status in the common law or in the Constitution or in the Federalist Papers or in the writings of any of the members of the Constitutional Convention.
What you fail to see is that both parents have to be citizens. Also the law that matters is the law at the time of his birth. Why did he spend millions to seal all his records? Why did he not take Trump up on his offer? If he really cared about charities and kids he would have.
@ellen; These are not my words, rather they come from a Member of Congress during a debate in 1866. Please spend a little time on the last sentence.
In 1866 Rep. John A. Bingham commenting on Section 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes (1866) said it means “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))
Bingham had asserted the same thing in 1862 as well:
Does the gentleman mean that any person, born within the limits of the Republic, and who has offended against no law, can rightfully be exiled from any State or from any rood of the Republic? Does the gentleman undertake to say that here, in the face of the provision in the Constitution, that persons born within the limits of the Republic, of parents who are not the subjects of any other sovereignty, are native-born citizens, whether they be black or white? There is not a textbook referred to in any court which does not recognise the principle that I assert. (Cong. Globe, 37th, 2nd Sess., 407 (1862))
Bingham of course was paraphrasing Vattel whom often used the plural word “parents” but made it clear it was the father alone for whom the child inherits his/her citizenship from (suggesting a child could be born out of wedlock wasn’t politically correct).
@ellen; Focus your attention on the last paragraph, please.
Charles Pinckney in 1800 said the presidential eligibility clause was designed “to insure … attachment to the country.” President Washington warned a “passionate attachment of one nation for another, produces a variety of evils,” and goes on to say:
Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation, of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained; and by exciting jealousy, ill- will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.
And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearance of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
What better way to insure attachment to the country then to require the President to have inherited his American citizenship through his American father and not through a foreign father. Any child can be born anywhere in the country and removed by their father to be raised in his native country. The risks would be for the child to return in later life to reside in this country bringing with him foreign influences and intrigues, and thus, making such a citizen indistinguishable from a naturalized citizen.
@ellen;
When a child inherits the citizenship of their father, they become a natural-born citizen of the nation their father belongs regardless of where they might be born. It should be pointed out that citizenship through descent of the father was recognized by U.S. Naturalization law whereby children became citizens themselves as soon as their father had become a naturalized citizen, or were born in another country to a citizen father.
Yes, birth is prima facie evidence of citizenship, but only the citizenship of the nation the father is a member.
* Temporary sojourners like transient aliens were a description applied to aliens other than resident aliens. The difference being temporary aliens were here for temporary purposes, such as work, travel, visitation or school, who had no desire to become citizens or was prevented from becoming citizens by law. Resident aliens were those who desired to become citizens and had renounced their prior allegiances and had taken the legal steps to become citizens or reside within some state per state law.
UPDATE: In regards to questions about the citizenship of the mother: Mothers citizenship rarely ever influenced the citizenship of their children except in certain situations such as the father dying before the child was born or when the identity of the father was unknown.
@ellen; This is the text of the law used by John Jay when he wrote Article Two of the Constitution.
Emmerich de Vattel: The Law of Nations
Book 1, Chapter 19
§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
@ellen;
You might consider reading the history of the founding of this nation, the nation I have defended most of my life.
Do you know what’s on his Forbes Air Force Base ,topeka Ks birth record? And father was dead before birth in this case, an American. So you have answered the issue. Thanks! i’ve been saying death and later marriage to Obama SR rebuts the presumption of husband being Dad. Depends on Ks state law at the time. pLus birth at a military hospital.
Born in a Military hospital has nothing to do with anything. My parents are both born here and my father is of Native American decent. My brother was born in Germany on my fathers 2nd tour there on base and they still had to go through Nationalization process for him when they came back to the states.
All the answers in the postings of mine. Forbes air force base is closed years ago and the airfield is now the city Air Port and inside the city limits. But when the Sec of State;s staff was checking for all the records they mentioned that those were military records and handled differently and i understand she had to log onto a different system to locate it. it was after I mentioned that the Ks records might have been used to the adoption to Soetoro that it may show Barry Soetoro that the comment was made: WE don;t think he knows. obviously I can;t get the records and not a registed voter in KS don;t think I can do anything legally in the shawnee County case that is pending I can then i wish some free legal help would be provided , Orly Taitz cold have asked for a court order and brought this all out in the open and did not do so even though I called her and said what has happened, Sec of State Kris Kobach whose political doings were not new info has been hit pretty hard since he went into the judge and said he was eligible. He never said he accepted the Hawaii record. he wold know and his staff would know.Everyone is against him when he is not allowed to say with out a court order or President Obama signing a release. I gave them the Dad’s name as I know it to be so they could check for the death record. I think i located a reference to it on line, but don;t have the money to pay for all these online sites. to get the entire record. Marriage certificate info was given to them also. Tamara Quinn Editor of the Topeka Capital Journal would not and will not let her reporters even check the archives for the newspaper article of the three bodies washing p on the sand bar later on. and the names are in there. I wanted to re read it for other details and he reporter I talked with was not allowed to do anything. Soon after this, I began posting. something is very rotten to the core in Topeka for 50+years over this. It goes back to Fred Phelps and why he was sent into Topeka 1954: facts I have reported indicate something more than being a Pastor. The staff i spoke with on 9/14/12 commented that parents were behind the gossip frenzy and may have been the attackers. A lot of witnesses survive form 50+ years ago or have shared with others in secret. The whole state of KS was ‘talking; when the bodes surfaced. Without any kind of investigation or in inquest it only enslaved the city in more fear of the unknown powers in the city and community. This is bigger than an interracial couple getting pregnant, its a microcosm of why I never really wanted to move back after HS
Hawaii may have been filed but its not the real onew. That’s in Shawnee County ks where he was born. Fear of KKK was justified when authorities were part of it. 50+ year old cover up continues as birtyhers know the truth and have bamboozled everyone . Why? To control ?
Even David Mariness said after I came forward that he knew of Topeka birth and didn’t write it. The real story is the Main media lying and sidetracking everyone to aid and abet the cover u[ of the murders of his real Dad. More to this as written on my sites. Ther’sa lot more to this and has less than the birth of the president but what all was going on with Fred Phelps and others in Topeka ks .
So the big question is , why is the Birth Cirtificate posted in the white house web site a layered forgery ? Why is his social security not able to pass an E-Varify test, and comes up tied to a man long dead, and his Draft card is so totally messed up forgery no one can explain the story behind that . So with all of this why is the phoney still in the White House , and why is there so much contraversy about vother fraud.
You know at least Nixon and Slick Willie had the common sence to try to hide the truth and not so blatent about lieing , deceit, and usurpeing the trust of the American People , what ever happined to journelistic intergerty…The media is protecting this fraud and the expence of the Constitution , our Freedomes, and and our homeland..
Is real one is in Toepka kS. Born at Forese air force base Hpospital. All tis is what his maternal grandmother did to get away form her relaitives at Westboro baptist church, et al…by Fall of 1963. rermeber 3 dead inclujding real dad and no investigiation to dat ofater 50+ years. Time for the truth to come out. Orly Taitz could have asked for the court order form ToepkA KS back in 9/12 and didn;t o it afer Sec of State Kris Kobacjh said he was eliegiblie becuse he has the records but can;t release them. whtou it r the President;s signature.
How strange and sad it is that standing up for the constitution is now considered brave!? We are a Republic lost.
It just goes to show how many “thugs” there actually are in DC. Both sides of the aisle are full of dishonest people. Some that are barely able to intellectually contribute to any kind of a debate what-so-ever.
Our “OUR” 2nd Amendment rights are eroding very quickly and its not solely because of gun violence. Its mostly because the government wants to abolish the Republic and turn to a socialistic or even worst a dictatorial type of government.
Its not only obama, who is merely a front man, but a whole gaggle of evil doers with plenty of money to back their play for a total takeover. They are the scum of the earth and will do “ANYTHING” to accomplish their goal. Including “NEVER LETTING A SERIOUS CRISIS GO TO WASTE”
I am afraid that many of our good patriots will die because of these thugs and their desire to take away our right to freedom. So many have already died trying to protect us from people like obama and his gang of thieves, leaving any decent citizen with no choice but to honor their sacrifice and “stand up” and be ready to defend our rights. Our right to a fair and honest government , by the people for the people, and a place where the order to “STAND DOWN” will come only after the enemy has been defeated!
May GOD have mercy on our children, grand children, and great great great grand children, and help us to defeat any enemy no matter where that enemy might be found to exist. May GOD strike fear of us into the hearts of evil doers and cause them to run and to hide in the deepest, darkest corners of the earth. Never to show their faces again for fear of your wrath upon them. Amen
I fear you are right. Our Federal Government has violated the Constitution for so very long, and gotten away with it, that they believe they can do anything they want with complete impunity. Guess what? They are right. Who will hold them accountable for their actions? Who among us even know what restrictions the Constitution places upon the Federal Government? Damn few, to be sure.
The real violation is the 50+ year old murder ofhis real Dad that started the process that led to the false bio. I have not named him publiically but he was named in The Topeka Journal when the three bodies washed upon the Ks River. I called the paper last Summer when the birthers ( who will noot go for the truth even though D Mariness and others now admit they had it) started inb again. T. Quinn Ed won’t even permit her reporters to check their aarchives for that as well as he death, later marriage to Obama Sr a couple months before birth. Plus any school mentions of his Mother., etc. The back lash has been one of absolute fear as Iit seems. Is it because mureders who went free for 50+ years are still alive? The witness, his pregnant mother died still subject to being called to testify if ever a trial. No witness protection program and birthers are following the fake trail of a family created one. Orly Taitz could end all of this by asking for the cort order fom the Ks judge as case still pending in Topeka ks. I don’t know what I can do beyond what I’ve done so far? I am not a registered voter in Ks, don’t live there. TRUTH seems to be the victim in all of this and the people. Why did the Republican House just Ok the NDEa Act taking away our consttutonal rights of due process? Both sides and big money are fooling everyone and their controlled elected Pres.whom may still not know and needs to if he doesn’t. Linda Joy Adams
Even the man in the clip that questions validity claims a POTUS must be a “native” born citizen. He is wrong…it is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN… I give up. What ever…
Since the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth all Native Born Citizens are Natural Born Citizens. The only persons who are born in the USA and who are not citizens are the children of foreign diplomats. All the others are citizens at birth, and that is the meaning of Natural Born Citizen. The only kind of a US citizen who is not a Natural Born US citizen is a naturalized US citizen, none of whom of course were born in the USA. Jindal, Rubio, and yes, Obama, were all born in the USA, and hence they all are Natural Born US citizens.
@ellen; You have a common, and incorrect definition of Natural Born Citizen. BOTH parents must be citizens of a nation for the child to be a natural born citizen. That means both Mommy and Daddy must be US citizens. Location of birth is not relevant. Article Two was patterned after Vattel’s Law of Nations.
In that book, the following definition of a “natural born citizen” appears, in Book I, Chapter 19, § 212, of the English translation of 1797 (p. 110):
§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society: bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. . . .
Who told you that? It is wrong. The meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth. It does not come from Vattel. In fact, the words “Natural Born Citizen do not appear in any English translation of Vattel’s French words until TEN years after the US Constitution was written, whereas Natural Born was used in the common law for about 300 years before the Constitution and was always used to refer to citizenship due to the place of birth. The translation of Vattel that Franklin and Washington read did not say “Natural Born Citizen.” It said that an “indigines” had two citizen parents. Moreover, Vattel is not even mentioned once in the Federalist Papers, while the common law is referred to about twenty times.
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are “natural born citizens” eligible to serve as President …”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Do you see any mention of parents in the above?
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)–Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).
Any mention of parents in the above?
“Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might be divided into two classes: natural born citizens, or those born within the state, and aliens, or such as were born out of it. The first, by their birth-right, became entitled to all the privileges of citizens; the second, were entitled to none, but such as were held out and given by the laws of the respective states prior to their emigration. …St. George Tucker, BLACKSTONE’S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. (1803)
Any mention of parents? NO. In fact you can see that Natural Born Citizens were simply those who were “born within the state.”
“Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity.”—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
No mention of parents, is there?
In fact, a total of nine state and federal courts in rulings on Obama and McCain have all said that the key US Supreme Court ruling was the Wong Kim Ark case, and all nine said that the Wong Kim Ark case said that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth, and all said that the Wong Kim Ark case had ruled that EVERY child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born US Citizen. That makes Jindal, and Rubio. and, yes, Obama—-all of whom were born in the USA—Natural Born US Citizens. Obama’s second Inauguration will take place on January 21.
ellen; You are far too adamant of an Obama apologist to be unbiased. Did you know that in the 22 months prior to Barry Soetoro announcing his run for President that there were eight attempts to change the requirement to be a Natural Born Citizen in order to run? Eight Bills… The only attempts to eliminate or modify Article 2. All in a remarkably short amount of time; less than two years.
You must be a LIBERAL NUT!
I think anyone who has followed this question of his eligibility does have the answer…….he won’t show his school records because he applied as a “Foreign” student. NO President has blocked all attempts to verify his eligibility as this infiltrator has.
He did not apply as a foreign student. That story came from an April Fool’s article. Obama has published his birth certificate from Hawaii, and the facts on it have been repeatedly confirmed by the officials of both parties in Hawaii and by the Index Data and by the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers. And the US Supreme Court has ruled in the Wong Kim Ark case that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth. As for Obama not releasing his college records, Romney did not do so either, nor did Bush (his grades were leaked by a source at Yale, but Bush did not release them) or Clinton or Bush41 or Reagan or Carter or Ford, etc.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) In this case, Wong Kim Ark, the son of 2 resident Chinese aliens, claimed U.S. Citizenship and was vindicated by the court on the basis of the 14th Amendment. In this case the Justice Gray gave the opinion of the court. On p. 168-9 of the record, He cites approvingly the decision in Minor vs. Happersett:
At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. On the basis of the 14th Amendment, however, the majority opinion coined a new definition for “native citizen”, as anyone who was born in the U.S.A., under the jurisdiction of the United States. The Court gave a novel interpretation to jurisdiction, and thus extended citizenship to all born in the country (excepting those born of ambassadors and foreign armies etc.); but it did not extend the meaning of the term “natural born citizen.”
CONCLUSION: Finally it should be noted, that to define a term is to indicate the category or class of things which it signifies. In this sense, the Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.
Hence every U.S. Citizen must accept this definition or categorical designation, and fulfill his constitutional duties accordingly. No member of Congress, no judge of the Federal Judiciary, no elected or appointed official in Federal or State government has the right to use any other definition; and if he does, he is acting unlawfully, because unconstitutionally.
The Wong Kim Ark case (A six to two ruling, one justice not voting) said that the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth.
Here are its words:
“It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.”
As you can see, that says that the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law, and it says that it refers to the place of birth (no mention of parents), and it says that every child born in the USA is a Natural Born Citizen with the exception of the children of foreign diplomats, and it says that that was the law in England, and in the 13 colonies, and in the early states, and under the US Constitution.
That is why a total of NINE state and federal courts in rulings on Obama and McCain have declared them to be Natural Born Citizens due simply to their place of birth because all nine of them say that the Wong Kim Ark is the key ruling, and not Minor v. Happersett, and all nine of them said that the Wong Kim Ark case said that every child born in the USA is a Natural Born US citizen except for the children of foreign diplomats. On October 1 of this year, the US Supreme Court turned down an appeal of one of those cases, which had ruled that Obama was a Natural Born Citizen and that every child born in the USA except for the children of foreign diplomats is a Natural Born Citizen.
Here are some of the rulings:
Hollander v. McCain (New Hampshire 2008) ruling: “Those born “in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” U.S. Const., amend. XIV, have been considered American citizens under American law in effect since the time of the founding, United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 674-75 (1898), and thus eligible for the presidency,
Ankeny v. Governor of Indiana (Indiana 2008 – Appellate Court) ruling: “Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”
Tisdale v. Obama (Virginia federal court 2012) ruling: “It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens.”
Purpura v. Obama (New Jersey 2012) ruling: “No court, federal, state or administrative, has accepted the challengers’ position that Mr. Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” due to the acknowledged fact that his father was born in Kenya and was a British citizen by virtue of the then applicable British Nationality Act. Nor has the fact that Obama had, or may have had, dual citizenship at the time of his birth and thereafter been held to deny him the status of natural born. It is unnecessary to reinvent the wheel here. … The petitioners’ legal position on this issue, however well intentioned, has no merit in law. Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a ‘natural born Citizen’ regardless of the status of his father.”
Voeltz v. Obama (Florida 2012) ruling: “However, the United States Supreme Court has concluded that ‘[e]very person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States. ‘Other courts that have considered the issue in the context of challenges to the qualifications of candidates for the office of President of the United States have come to the same conclusion. [The judge cites Hollander and Ankeny]
Voeltz v. Obama (2nd suit Florida 2012) ruling: “In addition, to the extent that the complaint alleges that President Obama is not a “natural born citizen” even though born int he United States, the Court is in agreement with other courts that have considered this issue, namely, that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purpose, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. [Citations to Wong, Hollander, Ankeny].
Allen v. Obama (Arizona 2012) ruling: “Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co. , 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986(1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. … Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise”
Farrar (et al.) v. Obama (Georgia 2012) ruling: “In 2009, the Indiana Court of Appeals (“Indiana Court”) addressed facts and issues similar to those before this court. [Ankeny] v. Governor, 916 N.E.2d (Ind. Ct. App. 2009). … The Indiana Court rejected the argument that Mr. Obama was ineligible, stating that children born within the United States are natural born citizens, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. … This Court finds the decision and analysis of [Ankeny] persuasive.”
Paige v. Obama et al. (Vermont 2012) ruling: While the court has no doubt at this point that Emmerich de Vattel’s treatise The Law of Nations was a work of significant value to the founding fathers, the court does not conclude that his phrase–”The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”–has constitutional significance or that his use of “parents” in the plural has particular significance. This far, no judicial decision has adopted such logic in connection with this or any related issues. In fact, the most comprehensive decision on the topic, Ankeny v. Governor of Indiana, examines the historical basis of the use of the phrase, including the English common law in effect at the time of independence, and concludes that the expression “natural born Citizen” is not dependent on the nationality of the parents but reflects the status of a person born into citizenship instead of having citizenship subsequently bestowed. The distinction is eminently logical.”
Definitely a LIBERAL NUT!
There were eight attempts by members of Congress during the years Barack Obama was developing a power base and running for president to remove the Constitution’s requirement that a president be a “natural-born citizen,” suggesting an organized strategy.
· June 11, 2003, Rep. Vic Snyder, D-Ark., brought HJR 59. It was intended to “permit persons who are not natural born citizens of the United States, but who have been citizens of the United States for at least 35 years, to be eligible to hold the offices of president and vice president.”
· Sept. 3, 2003, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., brought HJR67, which would have done the same as Snyder’s, only the requirement to be a citizen was lowered to 20 years.
· Feb. 25, 2004, Sen. Don Nickles, R-Okla., brought S.B. 2128 to “try to counter the growing Democrat onslaught aimed at removing the natural born citizen requirement.” But it defined NBC as someone who was born in and is subject to the United States,” which was not the understanding of the framers of the Constitution.
· Sept. 15, 2004, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., brought HJR 104, “to make eligible for the office of president a person who is not a natural born citizen of the United States but has been a United States citizen for at least 20 years.”
· Jan. 4, 2005, Conyers, D-Mich., HJR2, the same as Rohrabacher’s.
· Feb. 1, 2005, HJR15, Rohrabacher, to require only 20 years citizenship to be eligible for the office of president.
· April 14, 2005, Snyder, HJR42, requiring 35 years’ citizenship.
· Feb. 28, 2008, Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., tried to attach to SB 2678, Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act, an amendment clarifying what “natural-born citizen” includes. Obama and then-Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., were sponsors.
Since President Obama was born at topeka Ks of USA bormn parents, this was not about him. Unless he still didn’t know where he was born? t the time, there was an impetus to make the Gov of california, born in Austria< eligible, but since the personal scandals have been made known few would consider him as a candidate if he was made eligible. i wish Orly Taitz or pres Obama would get the Ks records and end this.
Re: “There were eight attempts by members of Congress during the years Barack Obama was developing a power base and running for president to remove the Constitution’s requirement that a president be a “natural-born citizen,” suggesting an organized strategy.”
Answer: So?
People have been trying to change that section of the Constitution for decades. In the 1950s it was pointed out that Irving Berlin, the author of God Bless America, was not eligible. And in the 1970s attempts were made to change the Constitution so that Henry Kissinger would be eligible. The attempted changes that YOU are referring to were mainly made to allow Schwartzenegger (remember him?) to be eligible.
NONE of those attempts to change the constitution to allow people who were not born in the USA to become president had anything to do with Obama because, duh, he WAS born in the USA, in Hawaii, as his birth certificate and the confirmation of the officials of both parties in Hawaii, and the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers, and the index data file and the teacher who wrote home to her father, named Stanley, about the birth in Hawaii of a child to a woman named Stanley, all show.
Goodby ellen. You win. Your man is President. Have a nice day. See ya in the bread line.
dOESN’T PERTAIN TO pRES oBAMA SINCE BOTH PARENTS BORM IN usa. Death of real Dad and marriage to obamaR for convenience of both all before birth rebits the presumption of husband being Father. The birthers leading this know the truth and won’t ask for the cort order for all the records from Topeka Ks where my mother took his mother to have him at Forbes Air Force Base Hoospital which is now in city limits as base is cloes and is now city airport. See my sies. The latest lies out there is allegedly from FBII analyist and is that the response to my letter to AG holder bacvk in 9/22/12 for an investigation 50+ years late of death of three in anracial hate crime attack on his parents saying some ‘alleed’ father wanted her to get an abortion? It just gets more bizarre and further from truth the closer it comesto truth being exposed. Where is all this coming from? My mother had gdnshp signed over from Fred Phelps at Westboro Baptist Church , yes and the senior members need to be asked what they know? Maybe the lisinformation is coming from them. THe real problem is that the Pres Obama never told the truth as his maternal grandmother had justified fears of the Phelps and others of her extended family. She wa desparate I not tell him the trut in 1/71, my one real chance to do so not knowing he didn’t know. One has to tell the basics and we now have expetys to help us tellas the child gets older.
Linda JOy Adams , details on my personal sites starts7/26/12 and in daily recaps since.
Here is what is posted to a website that sells firearms related supplies and equipment:
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All employees are coming in early and staying late to process orders as fast as we can. CDNN Appreciates Your Patience and Continued Business!
What this reporter failed to mention is that beginning in the 1960′s anybody could place a call from anywhere in the world to a Hawaii Hospital and report a birth of their child, and it would be placed in the Newspaper as a Registered Birth of Hawaii. This was common practice for Japanese parents who wanted their child to be given American citizenship.
The Laws on reporting Hawaiian Births were and still are very lax. So much more Investigation should be done towards Obama’s citizenship status. These electors did not do their complete job as to holding up the actual selection of our President by the Electors, as they could have stopped the entire procedure and demanded a Proper Investigation and place on hold Obama’s Inauguration Ceremony until all of the facts of the Investigation are in. After all there really is no hurry to have a President, but there is a hurry to find out if he is Constitutionally eligible to serve as President.
THANK YOU! As i’ve said a lo of phone calls made by my Dad to various parties while Mom was at hospital with Ann having Prers Obama. For some reason, orders were to not involve me, age 16, and my parents got hooked into all this helping his great niece. . My clearest understanding was his maternal grandmother did it all as her own fear of her relatives seemed greater. The racial hatred of Fred Phelps was witnessed by me directly as I’ve witnessed. Now they are after Gays as racial hatred isn’t popular any more. Westbora Baptist makes it much harder for those who prefer traditional marriage to not get stigmatized by them as they make it seem all are hateful and few are, They just disagree on moral or faith issues.
Well folks, we have a huge problem here in the good old USA. Logic, common sense, and the history of the Nation have no ability to influence the outcome of Congressional Actions. I worked for a General once in Korea who, during a bitching session about politics, told me, “Whenever you can’t figure out why politicians do the stupid things they do, or refuse to do what everyone knows is the right thing to do, just follow the Money Trail. Because in Washington, DC nothing matters except Money.” I left Vietnam the day the Paris Peace Accord was signed. Why did we simply give South Vietnam over to the Communists after all the Treasury we invested, the US citizens killed and injured?
So very many Corporations made untold wealth from warfare. Bombs, bullets, boots, uniforms, helicopters, jet aircraft, etc… War is about Money. Money they share with politicians through “donations” and outright payola. Why are so many freshmen House and Senate ultimately Millionaires?? They were not when they showed up in Washington. Around 50% are millionaires. They make $144,000 a year. That’s a long way from adequate income to be a millionaire.
Democrats & Republicans figured out a long time ago how to sell us out to the highest bidder. They say different things, but manage to push the Nation in the same direction decade after decade. Oh, gee, it was a close election! Or, close vote on a horrible law. But it always costs huge sums of money. It’s all about $$.
Just one more comment. My Icon speaks to who I am. Perhaps you have more blood, sweat, and tears invested in this Nation; but I doubt it. Or Government has craftily used the process of reinventing what terms and phrases within the Constitution mean. Just like ellen thinks that a natural born citizen can be the child of a foreigner simply because he first touched gorund inside our country. This is in contradiction to the facts as they existed in 1776.
Our Federal Government, over a long period of time, has encroached more nd more on the authority of the Individual States Rights. Our Constitution only allows the Fed’s to do things specifically allowed within the text of the Constitution. Everything else falls to each individual State to allow, or not. Please, someone show me within our beloved Constitution where Health Care is given to the Federal Government to oversee. Or, for that matter, Education.
Our Founding Fathers finally broke free of the chains of one of history’s most oppressive governments; England. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Jay, etc. knew what an out of control government could eventually do. Remember the Boston Tea Party? Now, the rebirth ot the Tea Party is demonized by the status quo in Washington! May God Have Mercy on our Children.
(Sorry for the rant…)
No need to apology need 1Sgt. And also thank you for you service.