Law Enforcement Targets, Inc., a provider of shooting targets to the Department of Homeland Security, has admitted that targets depicting pregnant women were “requested” by law enforcement agencies.
Yes, they are meant for don’t shoot trargets. Thank goodness!!
I went to the web site and looked at the targets. They are ALL holding guns. In most law enforcement situations, that is NOT a “don’t shoot” scenario. These targets are intended to help overcome the hesitation to shoot when the situation presents a target that wields a weapon, i.e. a citizen defending themselves, even if they are pregnant…
2 Billions rounds of ammunition in DHS hands supports this view.
Wrong answer… do you really think they’d advertise it if they were going to do that ???? They Are Don’t Shoot Targets….. that’s it.
They did not advertise it, it was a story that broke against their wishes, and it has been confirmed by Law Enforcement Targets Inc. that they were indeed SHOOT targets, so stop trying to twist the truth, and perhaps do some research before running you mouth….. THAT’S IT.
forgot to post a link for verification purposes…
Where’s the website? The Link?
Nevermind about the website and link, I found it. I looked at the targets, they are “shoot – don’t shoot” targets. In the one scenario with the pregnant/or “portly” woman holding the gun, she is, by definition, a ‘hostile’ and should be shot! In any shooting scenario where someone on the target is aiming a gun at you, you had better shoot to kill, or you’ll be considered dead! In all the other scenarios, all of the victims are without guns, and are being held as hostages and/or human shields. These targets are shoot/don’t shoot. The lady on the phone at the company stated the same when talking to this interviewer. He was reaching for something that was not there.
How about sharing your rationale for classifying targets.
You evaluated the pregnant woman as definitely shoot; by definition a “hostile”.
What is your definition of “hostile”?
Better still, what is the DHS definition.
One simple definition is………
If someone is pointing a gun at me, I am milliseconds from being shot at …. SHOOT!
All of the targets displayed in the “Split Second” targets had a gun pointed at me.
Does DHS use any others? What exactly are their training scenarios? What is the DHS definition of hostile
I cannot speak to you about the training or practices of the DHS – I am not associated with them. I am a retired US Marine (24 years) who served in Vietnam and Desert Storm. I am an occasional hunter, an avid target and sport shooter, and own a number of firearms. I have shot at most of the targets being sold at “letargets’ because they were offered at my local range, and discussed during my “carry conceal” training and licensing. If you, me or anyone is faced with a target that disokays an individual holding a gun pointed at you – you shot it, or you lose. That’s the name of the ‘game’ when facing paper targets. If the targets have multiple images, you quickly scan, acquire the armed dangers, and fire, as quickly and accurately as you can – there’s no magic to it. You certainly do not stand there and try to imagine make-believe scenarios about whether the person holding the gun is lost, or defending herself, or just offering you her gun. It doesn’t work that way. And – oddly, it’s the same way in real life! If you hesitate to psychoanalyze what the person pointing the gun at you is doing, or is going to do, then you will be shot. This is why people who own, or buy guns must seek proper training with their firearms. In a police scenario, while using those targets with armed civilians, the shooter on the line would shout out, “police officer, coming in” – the civilian behind the door, or around the corner, whatever, would know that the next thing they’re going to see coming into the room will be a cop, so they should throw their firearm (or whatever weapon) to the floor, and rasie their hands or extend them to show they are empty and that they are not a threat – so then the police officer enters the room and doesn’t shoot an innocent person. If however, after shouting out his presence and intention to enter, the civilian is still holding a gun, and it’s pointed at the cop, then he is going to shoot to kill – period. That’s his right and his duty if he wants to live and go home to his family. To say “what if the pregnant girl is protecting her family” is bullcrap… if the scenario, and the real life warnings, are executed and followed the way they’re supposed to be, then the woman won’t be holding a gun, or she will be shot.
After having read so many of the comments and remarks on here, my head is spinning to think that some of you even have firearms! I suspect many do not have CCW’s nor the accompanying training, because if you did you wouldn’t be saying some of the crap I’m reading. And for all of you who think these targets with armed civilians are anything other than shoot/don’t shoot targets (and I mean shoot the armed individual and not the unarmed ones), then you haven’t been to a shooting range where targets can be bought and used, and you aren’t properly trained with a firearm, and you do not know what you are talking about!
Shooting a pregnant woman is old hat for Obama. This is just his help in a woman’s right to choose.
Yeah you are right but I know in a perfect world he would prefer to give her an abortion first. But he is a realist and knows he has take his targets as they come available. He’s always been good that way.
I don’t believe they’re “Don’t shoot targets”. They are average people holding guns pointed at the target shooter. Those would be “Shoot targets”!
Link to pregnant women with gun. http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=LE-33 She could a civilian protecting herself against a backward Goverment or illegally protecting her lawbreaking husband/boyfriend or herself. Depends on the senario provided to the law enforcement officer.
This doesn’t surprise me. Our tyrannical government is conspiring with this Law Enforcement Targets, Inc. to kill American citizens like pregnant women, gun owners, etc. Of course, they won’t admit it. They ARE gonna eventually kill us of we don’t cooperate. So, be prepared America. Keep your guns, keep them locked and loaded and keep your ammo dry.
Keep your “Depends” dry too. No doubt you’ll poop your pants when they come for you!
Obama and his DHS Gestapo have to condition those agents to eliminate that nasty “hesitation.” Can’t have them hesitating to shoot innocent Americans seeking to protect themselves from tyranny now, can we?
They want us all disarmed, no matter how many of us they have to kill to accomplish that goal.
The problem they have is, we greatly outnumber them, so they have to disarm us, bit by bit, until their odds are better. By that time, their training will have eliminated the “hesitation” from their agents … Much like a steady diet of violent video games desensitized a number of the mass shooters.
This man sounds like a USEFIL IDIOT CAUGHT WITH HIS PANTS DOWN
Wowww, Dhs! You Guys Let Law Enforcement Agencies Get This Ridiculous Request; What They Forced You Guys?
Why don’t they put pictures of Michele and Barack on them?
I was just wondering if anyone knew how many of these targets the Chicago Police Department ordered.
My suggestion: Put the pictures from DHS officers, with their addresses on them. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
This interviewer is not knowledgable in target shooting! Of course they are for shoot, don’t shoot, target practice!!! You IDIOT! I have shot at targets depicting pregnant women surrounded by bad-guys, at targets of a pre-teen girl being used by an armed assailant as a human shield on a school bus, at targets of an armed woman hiding behind a man…. these are simply targets to ‘hone’ ones skills at decision making, quick responses, and more accurate and concise shooting… shoot or don’t shoot.
There are just too many damn people in these gun arguments who are ignorant and untrained in the use of firearms. They should all shut their mouths and defer to the experts – now there’s a novel idea!!
I actually never thought about that and I have seen these targets on TV when cops are practicing to make sure they are not shooting the wrong person so this is NOTHING new.
It’s desensitization training … They want their agents conditioned to shoot at everyday Americans.
What the hell do you think they’ve bought almost 2 billion rounds of hollow points for?
It is Not desensitizing training… Knock it off…. Targets similar to these have been used for many years now to train Police, FBI, and others….
Yea … Witness Mrs. weaver and others.
Whoa !!! What happened on Randy Weavers property was completely unconscionable, and those responsible should have faced charges. The Koresh compound incidents would have pulled too many “important people” (those above the law… ha ha…) into the litigation…. These incidents are absurd and should never have happened, Period. (I don’t have that much tunnel vision carlwk3……) Here is a statement from “Infowars” that I just read:
Law Enforcement Targets, Inc, the company who is providing these realistic targets, has seen widespread criticism after multiple original reports went viral across the internet.
In an official response to Reason.com regarding their line of “No Hesitation” shooting targets, the company had this to say:
“The subjects in NMH targets were chosen in order to give officers the experience of dealing with deadly force shooting scenarios with subjects that are not the norm during training.
I found while speaking with officers and trainers in the law enforcement community that there is a hesitation on the part of cops when deadly force is required on subjects with atypical age, frailty or condition (one officer explaining that he enlarged photos of his own kids to use as targets so that he would not be caught off guard with such a drastically new experience while on duty).
This hesitation time may be only seconds but that is not acceptable when officers are losing their lives in these same situations.
The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. If that initial hesitation time can be cut down due to range experience, the officer and community are better served.”
SO, you’re right to a point. These ARE no hesitation targets, but at the same time…. I would think good training, although their use may lead to a certain “desensitizing” in individuals as you said. On the other hand, you enter a room, and there’s this pregnant woman and her Glock 9mm is pointed at your face, who would you prefer to go home that day ???? HOPEFULLY, given an actual scenario, she would see you were Law Enforcement, and would lower the weapon. But, if not…. ?????? Alot of judgement in a short time……
I commented that the issue is “milliseconds”.
Regardless, DHS owes America an explanation of their training scenarios.
Specifically DHS owes America a definition of “hostile”.
What IS the DHS training standard?
I hope I never make the mistake of hesitating when confronted by a hostile pregnant woman.
I also hope I never make the mistake of shooting a defending pregnant woman.
Until DHS provides a definition of “hostile”, mine is
A lethal weapon pointed at you is milliseconds till death…. SHOOT!
HOW, exactly, does DHS guide their “agents” to decide?
Of some reason this system won’t let replays nest deep enough to respond to your latest, so I’m putting it in this way.
As a former sworn LEO myself, I am very sensitive to officer safety. HOWEVER, in today’s climate where DHS is arming up big time for a war on people who oppose the policies of the Obama regime, I have no doubt that those targets (and probably shoot house scenarios and video simulation training) are designed to produce more of the type of thugs that shot Mrs. Weaver and burned nearly 80 men, women, and children alive at Waco.
The recent Waco-like excution of Mr. Dorner in CA, the purchase of huge amounts of HP ammo and full-auto weapons, hundreds of APCs, etc. for “law enforcement” points in a VERY concerning direction. For my views on the Dorner incident, see http://carlwk3c.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/february-13-2013-at-1007-am-delibcourt-as-pre/
It is truly becoming an “us vs them” paradigm. I’m hard pressed not to believe that the only ting that’s saving us from total tyranny of now is that we outnumber them and they haven’t been able to render us completely defenseless yet.
I pray that enough Military live up to their Constitutional Oath.
These people are beyond sick and that is a fact.
Oh but would they all be “outraged” if someone ordered targets with the target center be place between the eyes of a Govt. Law Enforcement Officer. It’s NOT something I would advocate BUT that seems to be the attitude of this Administration towards it’s citizens.
Several comments for several posters………..
Christian…… Agreed dude….they are coming to get you!
Carlwk ……. the nasty part is that we out number them…
THAT is why my 2nd is so important…I want my A-10!
Liberty76……pictures of Michelle and Barry are OK by me; but not with the FBI
LOOK… HERE is the Deal
IF you TRUST your Govt… there are all OK
IF you DISTRUST your Govt these are all NOT OK
I divine that MOST Americans DO NOT TRUST their Govt
So….IF the Feds have lost TRUST with America, what is next?
John McCain’s daddy “the Admiral” covered up Israel attacking the USS Liberty!!!
The USS Liberty incident was an DELIBERATE attack on a U.S. Navy intelligence ship, USS Liberty, in international waters about 12.5 nautical miles (23 km) from the coast of the Sinai Peninsula, north of El Arish, by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967.
It occurred during the Six-Day War, a conflict between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The Israeli attack killed 34 U.S. servicemen and wounded at least 173. The attack was the second deadliest against a U.S. Naval vessel since the end of World War II, surpassed only by the Iraqi Exocet missile attack on the USS Stark on May 17, 1987, and marked the single greatest loss of life by the U.S. Intelligence Community.
Israeli attack on USS Liberty (US Navy ship)
If you read the actual historical accounts of the LInerty incident, you’ll see that it was a terrible accident that occurred in a war zone during a war.
Obama is getting ready to kill we the American Citizens keep your guns and buy ammo, the DHS and other Government Offices is getting ready to come out on the street to kill us all. We can never trust the Government again. Remember what Emanuel told Netanyahu get in line we are going to take over the World. The only way Obama and the Globalists can take over the world is to destroy the USA and kill all of us who believe in freedom and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Let us pray that when Obama sets lose his killers that the Armed Forces will be on our side and not Obama’s Our Soldiers have sworn to up hold the Constitution not Obama, who is going to destroy the USA, and turn America into a third world slave nation, where the only life will be for the Elite Politicians and the real rich, Obama, Clinton’s Bloomberg, Rockefeller , all the wealthy Senators and Congress men who are multimillionaires and billionaires, the list goes on just look them up they are all there, don’t forget the Kennedy’s and the Karry’s
I don’t know which was worse in the horrible interview. The interviewer or the interviewee? It was enough to grate on one’s nerves. He stumbled and stuttered and talked over his subject while she rambled and droned on ad nauseum and incomprehensibly. The whole thing was worthless. WJ must have needed something to fill a slot and this was all that was available.
The practice targets are a non-issue. Our concern should not be with the poor fed saps who might be called upon to enforce something they know is clearly wrong and places them in great peril while trying to carry out their orders. No, our biggest concern is the incredibly inept and fraudulent leftist ideolog in our WH or is it BH or maybe MH (Mulatto House). He is the singular greatest concern we have. Second terms can be problematic. Contrary to some pundits Obama is not free to do what he wants because he is in his second term and supposedly relieved of any worry about reelection.
The power is available to state governors via the 10th Amendment to basically tell Obama to go to hell when he tries to force some law upon us that is patently unconstitutional. It matters not if federal courts all the way up to the Supreme Court rules in his favor. The federal judiciary cannot enforce anything that the states refuse to honor. Ours has been and is to some extent still a nation of laws but only because we the people have in good faith kept the law for the sake of peace and stability. If a president along with his AG refuses to keep the law, then why should we. Our response to him should be: We’ll start obeying the law when you do. Of course he would counter by withholding federal funds, his only coercive option. But that can be defeated as well if he wants to “press to test.”
Im hoping that the pregnant woman target is really just a representation of a woman with a bomb under her burqa, that would make it OK
To ANYone that really thinks these targets are for the use of target practicing on pregnant women and gun owners !!!
C’mon man…. You “should” know that these ARE don’t shoot targets……. There comes a time when the obvious forecloses any kind of BS like “desensitizing mass shooters” Knock it off, and quit with the coming apocalypse scenarios. Good lord, ANYTHING like this would be so far under wraps that the arsehole in the soundbite would not just call up anyone and get this information. It’s Nonsense….. They are Don’t Shoot targets and that’s that….. Man, do you envision Muslims climbing out of your toilet at night ????? Got rear view mirrors on that crapper in the latrine!? Every time you see a cop car are you prepared to defend yourself, because you KNOW one day they are going to pull you over and give you a third eye on their way to the next town to round up the citizens, to be shipped off ???? You gotta relax a little bit…. The dip that made the soundbite is one of two things… He’s probably clinically paranoid to the “nth” degree or dumber than hell. He knows what these actually are and is just stirring the pot for alot of other potential wackjobs. Give yourself a break and quit it !!! Lol…..
Firstly, IF we TRUST our Govt, it seems more accurate to call those targets “Shoot Right” Targets.
mustangr posted, here, a long description that makes a lot of sense…. SHOOT!
I said the same thing , but shorter, here
ANYBODY who spends time analyzing why someone has a gun pointed at them is in big trouble.
If you want to call them “Don’t Shoot the Wrong Target” that would be more reasonable.
IF YOU DO NOT TRUST the Govt… who does these days?…..then the questions are real and reasonable.
As to “Under Wraps”, do you really believe it? Do you really believe the Valachi Papers or WikiLeaks or Whistleblowers do not exist?
One final question…….
Someday when you turn the corner and come face-to face with a gun pointed right at you, will you recall your post and shout…
It’s ok….I KNOW you are a DON’T SHOOT TARGET!
Let the company know what you thing about their making these targets- of you!
Let DHS publish their Training Scenarios with an EXPLICIT
statement about those scenarios as regards US Citizens.
Until then, DHS is taken as part of our current corrupt Gov’t
NOT TO BE TRUSTED!
OK, DHS, eh?
The DHS is an enemy of the citizens of the USA.
I will show no pity or mercy toward an enemy or opponent.
I would therefore need to arm my family and myself against the DHS terrorists.
There you go folks, a scenario of common people armed to defend themselves against the DHS.
The local authorities will arrive too late to our defense and will only be there to identify dead civilians if we are not armed.
I was never a big fan of DHS either……. even your smaller towns have an office for them……
Have you had a gut-full of usurper Obama and his illegal regime, who only knows how to destroy the US Constitution and our way of life?
Get on board and tell your elected officials how you feel at:
My senator (Toomey, (R), PA) replied, totally defending the birth certificate’ saying the courts had rejected all cases as unfounded, etc. and ended saying, “of course he respects the constitution, blah, blah, blah”
I replied that I’m sorry to find that he’s either too cowed by the establishment to do his duty, or he’s complicit.
I’m afraid that if there are ANY from either party who are worth more than what my Rotweiller leaves on the lawn, there’s only a handful at most.
Toomey is just another @$&* licker in OJR = On the Job Retirement.
One judge ( bought, paid for, threatened, socialist, ?) mis-quoted a case about a Chinese kid
(Wong Kim Ark) who was ruled to be a citizen under our 14th Amendment.
Wong did NOTHING to address eligibility, but a whole bunch of other judges got in line
and said, basically, ….. what he said!
There is not a Patriot in the whole stinking system!
I saw an article yesterday (can’t find it now) that asserted that the Ark case, and one that it referenced, supported that to be a “Natural Born Citizen” you had to be born in the US of parentS as in plural, both) who were themselves citizens at the time of birth. That has always been my understanding, and I believe it’s clear that it was the Founders’ intent.
Even though there is doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii, since his (alleged) father was a British subject, Obama would have been born a dual citizen and be ineligible no matter where he was born.
However, if his true father was indeed Frank Marshal Davis, the communist, who he rambles MUCH more than Obama Sr., he could be eligible … Unless he actually lost citizenship through his adoption by Soetoro in Indonesia, where his school records list his citizenship as Indonesian and his religion as Islam.
It would be very interesting to see on what passport he traveled to Pakistan at a time when travel there on a US passport was prohibited.
There are so many lies and deceptions, and Obama has spent millions to hide the truth, so I can’t fathom how anyone with two functional brain cells can’t come to the conclusion that something is VERY wrong.
THE definitive case about “natural born” citizen is Minor v Happersett. (quite old)
Set aside all the obfuscation about where he was born, etc.
His (reported/presumed) father( Barack Obama Snr.) was NOT an American citizen.
THAT destroys nobummers eligibility; a “natural Born” citizen being a person born in America to two American Citizens
More recently the US Senate affirmed the SCOTUS “Minor” definition
= = = = =
In other words, the U.S. Senate defines “natural born citizen” as an individual who was born:
On American soil (which includes U.S. overseas military bases); and
Of parents who were American citizens at the time of the child’s birth.
= = = = =
Well, that is not the end.
Suppose you surrender on the location of his birth…. some won’t …. others give in… Hawaii
The tough bumps come when you address Parent’s Citizenship
* Presumably his mother was a Stanley Ann Dunham
* We have to get past the TRUTH of that ( some contend she was a surrogate fake) to then
examine her ability to confer citizenship on a born child.
It brings in questions of her age, etc…. for the moment, set that aside
* Presumably his FATHER was Barack Hussein Obama Snr. , a British Subject.. NOT American
* BUT WAIT…. THERE’s MORE
* What if BHO’s father was in fact a US Citizen; NOT Barack Hussein Obama Snr., but someone else?
What if he were IN FACT Born in America to two “qualified” American Citizens.?
Who are they? Where WAS he born?
THAT is the crux of ALL birther’s challenges.
Obama has cloaked himself in SECRECY….spending Million$ to hide his origins when a simple $15 fee would reveal ALL.
Where I come from, where there’s smoke, there’s fire!
We are, as some jokingly say, “in violent agreement”!
Thanks for referring to the case whose name I couldn’t remember.
The fact that there are SO many permutations of unknown facts that would render him ineligible, coupled with the extraordinary effort and expense Obama has gone to to conceal those facts, clearly indicates that there is sufficient question as to merit a FULL and COMPLETE investigation to get to the bottom of it.
If Obama had nothing damning to hide, there would be NO reason to not just settle the matter once and for all, rather than spending millions on lawyers and corrupt judges to hid the facts.
The ONLY reasonable and rational conclusion that can reached is that the facts he’s hiding are damning.
This is nothing more than a brainwashing tactic, to get those sevice members numb to the thought of murdering their fellow Americans.
Gosh, mentally conditioning anyone to shoot pregnant women seems a stretch. What if someone sold agents with guns pointed at you and the shirt said, “FBI” or “DHS” Or BATF. That seems like what the regular people out there that want to stay Free might Like to See.
The guy that shot Vicki
Weaver while holding her child seems like the kind of folks that Obommie the Commie awants to have on his team. That guy should have been TRIED, Convicted and Hanged with Randy Weaver Gettint to throw the TRAP DOOR on the Gallows. As it happened Randy got 3 million Dollars for WRongful Death. What did the Murdering Agent Get? A Medal of Commendation.
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