The opening of 2011 state legislative sessions has been accompanied by a spate of birther-related bills, the clearest indication yet that the controversy surrounding President Barack Obama’s place of birth will continue to simmer throughout his reelection campaign.
Lawmakers in at least 10 states have introduced bills requiring presidential candidates to provide some form of proof that they are natural-born citizens, a ballot qualification rule designed to address widespread rumors on the right that Obama was not born in the United States.
The notion that Obama does not meet constitutional qualifications to be president has dogged him since the early stages of the 2008 race, despite his campaign’s posting online his certificate of live birth in the state of Hawaii.
The birther controversy resurfaced in recent weeks when newly elected Hawaii Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie, a friend of Obama’s parents, promised to investigate the issue and finally put to rest rumors that he was born in Kenya or Indonesia. Abercrombie later backtracked, citing the state’s privacy laws.
So far, the conservative conspiracy theorists who have pushed national media campaigns and numerous legal challenges questioning the president’s eligibility have met little success.
At the state level, however, the issue continues to fester. This year’s bills, if passed, would create a requirement for presidential campaigns to prove candidates’ place of birth, a proviso that sponsors say would finally clear up the matter.
Read More: By ANDY BARR, Politico
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The most noteworthy line: "So far, the conservative conspiracy theorists who have pushed national media campaigns and numerous legal challenges questioning the president’s eligibility have met little success."
That will undoubtedly continue for the next two to six years.
Obama is obviously a fraud . Just because the media whores refuse to address the issue fairly it will take a little longer to get the truth out but it is getting out. I'm starting to see bumper stickers ! He doesn't have two years to hide.
Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
It seems the people have no other choice but to “go Egypt” on this crooked regime. Obama’s defenders make claims that he is a natural born citizen regardless of facts that prove he is not. I have one thing to say to these fools. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Show all of his college records and his long form birth certificate as well as the legal documents where he changed his name to Barack Obama. Show us the Visa/passport he used when he traveled to Pakistan in 1982, (before he had an American passport). Show us the reinstatement of citizenship, after being an Indonesian citizen, that would have been required of him upon turning 18 years old.
After doing all of that, explain how he is eligible to be president when he was born, if Barack Obama Sr. is his father, a British subject! Then explain how being native born is the same as natural born and why our founders didn't just say future presidents have to be born on American soil. NAtural born means having two parents who are both American citizens.
Obama traveled to Pakistan on his US passport. He must have had a US passport from at least the time when he returned from Indonesia to attend high school in Hawaii because if he had traveled on any other passport, he would have needed a US visa on that passport, and no application for a visa has been found.
IN addition, he never had a passport from either Indonesia or Britain, as calls to those country's embassies will confirm.
Pakistan, by the way, was not on any "no travel list: of the US government in 1981, when Obama went there, and it did not bar US tourists from visiting, In fact, it was eager to have them.
Obama has already shown the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, the only one that Hawaii has sent out to anyone since 2001. It no longer sends out copies of the long-form original, even to people born before 2001. And, since no other president has shown detailed school or college records (a few showed grade-point averages), Obama does not have to do so either. BUT, if a Republican shows her or his transcript in 2012, Obama is likely to do so too.
First part all speculation, sorry gotta take some points on this. Nope: no link no credit. I will agree he showed a Certified "Certificate of live Birth" From 2007. The rest is not documented fact and don't send me to Factcheck/Annenburg website cause I know who funds that one. I here he may even turn on Barry in 2012. Hint Hint. Who could be this Spooky Dude?
Then you have a rational explanation of how Obama could have entered the USA from Indonesia without either a US passport or a US visa on a foreign passport? And, if the latter, you could account for why the application for that visa in Indonesian has not been found?
The name of the document is the Certification of Live Birth, and the facts on it were confirmed by three Republican officials in Hawaii. Would you like me to cite their repeated confirmations?
No please no more repetition. Neither one of us have a rational explanation for this whole issue about Barry and his life history. You and I both know that every bit of every President's history is known. Barry has conveniently protected some of his and that can only leave open the door to speculation and theories. Which is human nature here is America from both sides. He is my President to and I am convinced that something in his life is not what we are told to be true. I will always question this man and never give up on exposing all the truth of this man until he is not my President. He and the Democratic congress from 2006 to the beginning this year are exactly what they excused President Bush of being, but worse. Barry and his party are not good for this country and seems to think that everyone should end up working for the government, receive something for nothing from the government and pass that bill on to the hard working people like me. It is our place to help the needy but the Democratic party and Barry are changing the definition of needy and spending on the average 1 and half trillion dollars more than they take in. The only way they know how to bring more money into the Government is to raise taxes, revenues and what ever tricky word they can use to get control of more money. Simple math will show you that more revenue will go to the government when more workers are earning a paycheck than raising fees on American companies. Why do they want to punish American Companies? You see it is not just a clear single minded subject of Where is the Birth Certificate as you seem to be focused on. He has increased the debt faster than any other President in history and I really wish it were true that he is not eligible to be President, then we could remove him from office. I know it not the Birth Certificate, but I still believe he is a fraud and has history in his background that will prove he is not whom he or his handlers are wanting us to believe. So you just keep focusing on the mission of yours on to prove where the chosen one was born and keep believing that the Democrats are the only hope for the world. PS: Did you find the whole page from either paper in 1961? Find that and you mission will be complete. Don't repeat the line:
There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
Blah/Blah/Blah. You were not there and are only repeating speculation. Show me the whole page from either of these papers. Not to convince me but the mass's that don't believe. Stating a policy from 1961 is a general policy and there are always exceptions to the rules. Trust me I remember 1961. Quite clearly.
Re: "You and I both know that every bit of every President's history is known."
Baloney. Teddy Roosevelt's grades. FDR's grades, JFK's grades, Ronald Reagan's grades, oh and yes John McCain's grades–all have never been published.
I am repeating FACTS. The facts are that three officials confirmed. That is a fact, as the citations prove. The facts are that there were notices in the newspapers. I have shown them. The facts are that you could not just walk in an register the birth of a child in Hawaii in 1961 and that the officials then (as now) demanded proof if there was a claim that the child was born outside of a hospital.
Punishing or not punishing American companies has nothing to do with the location of Obama's birth, which was in Hawaii, and NOT Kenya.
Re "I still believe he is a fraud." Believing something without evidence is fantasizing.
Grades? So what. Your starting to get a little to far into this. Three officials in either party are never have the creditability to convince the unbelieving. Elected official are less trusted than Used Car salesmen. Blistering a birth was not that complicated in the 1960's and even non-citizens were registered. But the use of the short form has caused this confusion and if the information from the long form was revealed, this matter would be over.Why is it that you are so against the revealing of the hospital, doctor, time of birth?
Blistering Should be registering in the above post. John McCain was third from the bottom at Annapolis. President Bush was a C student and partied a lot. John Kerry' IQ was 136 President Bush's was 138. Interest but off the subject. Grades. ???????? what.
Punishing or not punishing American companies has nothing to do with the location of Obama's birth, which was in Hawaii, and NOT Kenya. DUH it still the truth and es we can agree that it has nothing to do with the birthing issue. Sorry I didn't know I was only allow to stay on subject. My bad. That still puzzles me why you would respond and bring the birth of the chosen one with his current lack of leadership to date. I see in the New York Times he and Hillary had throw down over the middle east and dictators. Oh the good old days of the Clinton planned leaks to the New York Times. I wonder will Hill-dog try again. I think so. Disclosure statement. Discussion of Hillary has nothing to do with grades or the birth of the chosen one.
Also you are still treating me like a birthier, and really don't get my purpose and interest in this. I "Think" Note Think that something on that birth certificate will not follow the history he wrote in his books and it may not be the place of birth. So there. You keep saying no other President had to produce there birth certificate and use others for all kind of examples. The point is Barry not all other presidents and the birth of John McCain was a issue in 2008 and the Senate resolved it John's. The issue is Barry's and a real open and transparent person as he promised to be, would release all the information on the long form and put this to rest. Three little simple things Hospital, Time and the doctor. These three thing would not endanger the security of Barry and would put this to rest. No he won't do that and he and his handler love to have the crazies, wackos and teabaggers to run against. Why? It distracts from his performance and bankrupting of yours and my country. It comes down to Politic plan and simple. They all accuse the other side of playing politics. DUH Like that's a news flash. They all go to Washington and promised us a rose garden. Guess what he Lied and people are died on his watch to. Easy to promise everyone everything when on the campaign trail much harder to deliver. This is why the birth certificate and his actions even today are one. You really don't get the big picture do you? Politics is never about one single subject and is a full contact sport for the ones playing. But you hit me back with Grades. WOW.
Ya I did poor in English 101, Darn good in Math and Engineering though. That's where the money is and I am sure Barry will want more of my hard earn money to pay for some useless cause.
Re: "the use of the short form has caused this confusion and if the information from the long form was revealed, this matter would be over…"
Baloney it would. I have already seen birther sites where birthers are saying that if the long-form is released, they will claim that it was forged. And, by the way, for the Hawaii birth certificate to be false, FOUR officials, including the clerk (whose party we do not know) would have to be lying.
And there would have to be a rational explanation for these two points:
1) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
2) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
You, who have often claimed to be rational, simply blow off the two points. You do not even try to answer them.
Ellen Ellen Ellen you really should read my full comment and respond to it subject matter ;
You do not even try to answer them. Ellen says.
OK Here is my answer to your 2 point above.
1. Yes I agree that there were notices in the papers. The rest of the is speculation and unless you were in Hawaii in 1961 you would not know how, where when and why they were there. Just because you research a law that was present at the time, does not mean it was followed 100 % of the time. Here I go Speculation just to debate your point OK. Here it wait for it >>>>> SPECULATION>>> Money can buy you just about anything in this world and Newspaper people did not make squat in the 1960's I know I got paid 5 cents an inch for articles I wrote in the sport sections then. So for you to claim that because a rule was in place it was followed 100 % of the time is just wrong.
2. COPY/PASTE same answer as Number one.
Suggested resolutions
1. Release the Hospital, Doctor, Time of birth. Harmless won't hurt anyone or anything.
2. Find the complete copy of the page that had the birth notice on them and I think the case will be made to most not all. All you have to do is convince the rational ones and the rest will be unimportant.
So please tell me why my suggestions are unacceptable. I think they are fair and really would be quite simple to achieve. I some would need is one of these two and the (rational) non-believers would turn.
Your other point;
Baloney it would. I have already seen birther sites where birthers are saying that if the long-form is released, they will claim that it was forged. ;
Ya and there is still Truthers out there that believe George Bush ordered the Twin Towers to be leveled. Wacko to the left wackos to the right. You will never convince all just like your 100% belief that a law or regulation was enforced in the 1960"s. Pay to play has been around and insures some get to pass go and collect more than the 200 dollars allowed in monopoly.
Finally I since a little anger in your responses to me. I am sorry this issue is so close to you, but you still respond to me like I am an unbeliever in the chosen ones birth place location. Sorry that is the least of my concerns with this man life history, cause some day "The Chickens are going to come home to roost". Just like that good old Pastor of the (Church) he attended in Chicago told us they would. Its not were was born it was the people he surrounded himself around during his whole life. That is a very interesting subject and that is why I want this man out of the office he holds. I wanted Hillary in 2008 I never agreed with her politics but she has more experience in the White house than either of the choices we had in 2008. She had to run the place while Bill was having pizza parties with the interns.
Finally again; Just because NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND. Does not mean it does not exist. If it is there it can be found if looked for hard enough.
You really needs some new material. and understand some of these people are about where the birth was and some are not convinced that he meets the requirements due to his Fathers citizenship. And no Circuit court ruling is a proof that the Constitution is different than what it says. Only two way around that Amendment or Supreme Court judgment. So sending out circuit court rulings are useless.
I am a debater not a Birthier, and don't care if you believe me or not.
Yes, the visa application could be missing and not found yet. Yes, it MIGHT be possible (though there has been research that indicates that it was not) to register a child without a statement from a witness. Yes, three Republican officials could be lying. Yes, the press could have lied when it quoted the Kenyan grandmother that the first that her family had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.
But ALL of these speculations would have had to have happened for the Kenya story or the born-outside-the USA story to be true. ALL of them.
1) Obama’s mother would have had to have taken a long (no direct flights, no ships), VERY expensive and highly risky (stillbirths, Yellow Fever) trip to Kenya late in pregnancy (some variations on this for other countries);
2) She would have had to have given birth there and the Kenyan government since then seized and sealed all the files of the birth and of her arrival at Kenyan airports (and that it has been successful in hiding the story that it seized files from everyone except, oddly, WND)
3) The Obama family would have had to have carried the child home despite either not having a visa or a change to a US passport, or that it has somehow not been found.
4) They would have to lie about the birth in Kenya to the officials in Hawaii, which is illegal, risky (Obama’s father could lose his student visa) and completely unnecessary. Why unnecessary? Because you would get Obama all the benefits of citizenship if he were born overseas simply by having him naturalized.
5) They would have to be successful in the lie, claiming that Obama was born outside of a hospital, when there is evidence from a person who did the research that Hawaii demanded witness statements whenever there was a claim of birth outside of a hospital.
6) A witness who said that she was told of Obama’s birth in Hawaii in 1961 and wrote home about it would have to be lying
http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495…
7) The THREE officials who have stated that the documents in Obama’s file show that he was born in Hawaii would have to be lying;
8) The Kenyan grandmother who said that the first that her family had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/world/chi… would have to be lying.
ALL that would have to happen, all eight points. The trip to Kenya would have been Enormously expensive, some estimates say $20,000 in 2011 dollars for two round trip. It is absurd to think that they even did that. So what are the odds of all eight things happening?
IF there are people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya despite the absurdly low possibility of all eight things happening, and there are, then they would continue to believe it even if they saw the original birth certificate. In fact, on some birther sites, I have already seen them saying that if the long-form original were released, they would simply call it a forgery.
Sounds like you are well up on this situation, ireuel. "Simple math will show you that more revenue will go to the government when more workers are earning a paycheck than raising fees on American companies."
A pasture will support only so much grazing and then it begins to go down. The government has been overgrazing the revenue pasture for some time now and the pasture is going down. The witness to that is found in unemployment which cannot be improved by government stimulus but exacerbated. Obama does not honor our Constitution so he is not American regardless of parentage or birth location. He is not the only elected official that falls in this category.
~ Mr 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. ~
Obama has been dancing on this trap door and Egypt may prove to be the the slipping latch. If he makes it to the end of his term I could be wrong but time will give the answer.
careful Whit, Ellen doesn't like it when we track away from the birth certificate, pretty much the same as Barry himself. He loves the distraction it seems. Yes he and his party has raised the debt limit so quickly that it will soon be uncontrollable. Yes and for Ellen: Both parties have wasted our money and have nothing to show for it but their re-elections. As I said above Math is my strong suit and the calculations just don't match the verbiage spewing from his mouth. Have a good day.
You are welcome to discuss anything you like, of course. I simply discuss the issues of birth in Hawaii and Natural Born Citizenship. Sometimes when there is a mention of something like corporate taxes or the deficit in a discussion of the place of birth I mention that these issues are irrelevant to the place of birth.
Disinformationist.
Why not discuss the facts instead of calling names?
All very well, Ellen. We have his birth certificate(?) and now if you will kindly produce a stamped U. S. Passport used to visit Pakistan that will stop some of the stormy waves. Hot air only stirs the controversy.
No president has ever shown his passport. However, you are dreaming if you think he used some passport other than that of the USA. Pakistan was not on any "no travel" list in 1981, and it welcomed US tourists, and a call to the Indonesian and British embassies will confirm that he never had either country's passport.
However, he did have a US passport from at least the time that he returned from Indonesia to attend high school (before the Pakistan trip, which was in college). He had to have traveled from Indonesia to Hawaii on a US passport because if he had used a passport from any other country, he would have needed a US visa on that passport–and there is no record of him applying for such a visa in Jakarta, Indonesia.
maybe they sholud have gone to the zoo in Hawaii no one asked him if he might have the real birth certificate.See I'm trying to be like you liberals being nasty about people.
People can see that you are not being serious and have not discussed the facts.
Hopefully only two more. Wouldn't you agree with that?
That depends on the alternative–and based on what I've seen so far from the GOP, and considering that no Democrat will run against him, I'll probably vote for him again.
You would,we need this muslim who can't show a birth certificate like we need Hitler and besides if God was a republican you wouldn't vote for him because your probably an atheist.Have you ever seen your cohort ellen dancing on a pole
Hillary and Barry had a fight last week. And good leak to the New York Times. I wonder, is the Clinton team back to leaking to their favorite source? I hope 2012 is more interesting than Barry VS John. I just closed my eyes and pulled the lever, if you know what I mean. Honestly I would of prefer Hillary over either of the above two. see, I go both ways, but only in politics.
Obama does not have to show the birth certificate.
It is already on factcheck dot org and his records are sealed. The republican ex-gov Linda Lingle of Hawaii confirmed it. So, he is exempt. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Execut…
see for yourself: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-1712.pd…
and: http://www.fas.org/sgp/obama/presidential.html
and: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executiv…
Oh yes, Elana the exempt from the rule of law poster. Try reading art 2 . It says the presidents shall qualify. I didn't see where it said the president can use executive orders to not qualify or that a governor could vouch for it or a court could rule him so. Spin away little spider, it's your yarn.
Since no president before Obama ever showed his birth certificate, are you saying that they all violated the Constitution?
Obama has shown the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed by Three Republican officials in Hawaii. That is more proof than any president has ever shown before, and it is sufficient.
How do you know no President ever ever ever showed his birth certificate. Then how did the committees that submitted the letters to the Federal government after there nomination was selected during the primary that states clearly that their nominee is qualified for the office he is seeking. IE: "Constitutionally" Which is on most of them except one I know. Remember I not Birthier, just questioning your facts.These can be read at almost any Presidential Library/Center. Get out away from the internet and go visit real places for facts. Factcheck dot Annenburg dot Soros, does not count.
How do you know that any president before Obama ever showed his birth certificate? Can you show any and show that it was posted or published or showed to a committee before the election? (Ronald Reagan's has been posted, but it was posted years after the election, and it was not shown before the election). You will not find any.
Both political parties have sent out certification letters for decades. They accept the words of the candidate that he or she was born where they said they were born.
IN contrast to this situation, Obama, showed the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii. How do I know that it is the official birth certificate? I can show you. And the facts on it were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii. How do I know that the facts on it were confirmed by three officials? I can show you.
Re: "I not birther". Sure sure.
you really don't get it do you? You are going to need post birth certificate treatment after this is over. I hope that is covered under that new health plan. :-@
Once again you are not discussing the facts. Are you afraid of them?
ireuel our earlty presidents didn't have birth certificates. Bible record but not birth certificates. Most were known from their youth and their parents also well known. That is not the case with Obama and the birth certificate is far from the only irregularity we have. There is no real background on him regardless of the protestations of James and Ellen and no triangulation with solid reference points to take a bearing. Therefore we are well justified in our questioning.
Ellana=Ellen. Same poster, same regurgitated lies.
I am not Ellana.
Than did she share her copy/paste stuff. Seems to be a Ted using the same stuff to? Just about as much confusion as Barry himself. Why is this so important to you and yours? That is the question, you three plus James sure seem to find this subject interesting. I know James I hide under a alias, but the internet is full of wackos and I really don't care to lead them straight to me personally. Could be a bad thing. PS My alias unlike Barry's is not required to be filled in on Federal forms. Federal Law required for background checks.
Hint Hint. Be there had to do that.
Facts are always important. And the facts are that Obama was born in Hawaii. The same anti-birther stuff has been around for a long while; the fact that many people use it does it make it any less factual.
Why don't you try to answer this:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND. Why not?
Is it rational to believe not only that three Republican officials in Hawaii were lying, but that a US visa or the addition of Obama to his mother's passport was not necessary in 1961 (it was) or that the parents were able to sneak the child past US Immigration without showing those documents?
Maybe those documents are sealed with the rest of the needed information. I can think of nothing that would harm obama in those sealed documents unless the reveal that he is not telling the truth
The files of applications for visas and applications for changes to passports are the property of the US State Department and open to the US State Department to view, whenever it wants, and also probably open to the CIA and FBI.
For the last eight years until January 2009, the US State Department, CIA and FBI were under the administration of a Republican president. During that time they had plenty of time to look at the files, and probably they did–but they didn't find anything. The is no document showing that a visa or a change to a mother's passport occurred for Obama in 1961.
So, you may be thinking, maybe they sneaked Obama past US Immigration or smuggled him in through Mexico or Canada. The latter is highly unlikely because Hawaii doesn't have a border with either of them. And sneaking a child past US Immigration would have been very difficult and risky to do.
We understand, you "must have been there" at the time (lol), since you're so convinced he "was born there"! Give us a break- -all these Republican officials are "lying"! Why, just because you said so? It's already been stated, documented, signed and sworn to, by "an election official", from Hawaii, (who's NOT a Republican)"there IS NO birth certificate!
If three Republican officials have said that he was born in Hawaii, and you say that he wasn't, it must be you who are claiming that they are lying. I believe that they told the truth.
If these three officials WERE lying, they would be in danger of being prosecuted for fraud, at the very least they could lose their jobs and never work in a Republican administration again. The liar Tim Adams, whom you cite, never had access to Hawaii birth records (http://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/honolulu-city-clerk-debunks-new-birther-theory/). And, nothing will happen to him for his lies.
And, neither Adams nor you, have explained either of these two points:
1) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
2) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
The visa thing is not provable and is just speculation. You really should do what I do. put a statement when spewing unprovable 1961 travel visa stuff. The rules where in place, but there were always exception to the rule. I see you also don't believe I am not a birthier. Interesting you seem to have so much birth stuff on your brain you were unable to comprehend that yes it is about the birth certificate but not for the reasons most in this site believe. Location is not my query. Truth is my interest. Think what you may of me, it is not important. The truth will be out either way it may fall.
What do you mean that the visa thing is not provable?
Are you saying that there was a way to bring a child to the USA from Kenya without a visa or him being entered on his mother's US passport? What? Bribery?
Okay, so say that they bribed their way through immigration, then would they do that AND claim that the child was born in Hawaii, and get away with it? What are the odds of both of them happening?
And why even try? Say that a child were born outside the USA. You don't have to bribe to bring smuggle him to the USA and lie about him being born here. All you have to do is have him naturalized at a later date and he would become a US citizen with all the rights of a US citizen except the right to be president.
You say that you are not a birther. But the birther fantasy is based on the idea that he was born outside the USA. It is not based on the myth that his official birth certificate is insufficient proof. No one cared about the birth certificates of the previous 43 presidents until the LIE that Obama was born in Kenya.
And, since that is IMPOSSIBLE, the birth certificate that Obama has shown is (1) far more than any previous president; (2) legal proof of birth in the USA; (3) all that is necessary since there is not a shred of evidence that he was born anywhere else–and since it actually would be virtually impossible without some kind of a visa or being entered on his mother's US passport.
Ellen/Ellena/Ellana/granite/Granite?
Whatever. Everybody knows better, you wacko. Funny, your alter ego didn't protest but you did. It's supposedly "her" comment; you'd think "she" would defend "herself" instead of you spouting off yet again.
I’m tired of these Obamniacs who reference Snopes.com, Factcheck.org, and other irrelevant posts made by the Obama/Soetoro Whitehouse staff like Robert Fibbs, (GIBBS), as proof Obama is eligible to be president.
In the first place, the owner of Snopes is a known leftwing liberal who spouts Obama centric garbage. Snopes reports that Michelle Obama never said her husband was Kenyan and Obama never said many things that he did, and all of it is therefore a hoax. But, you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video’s that prove otherwise.
As for Factcheck.org, they are also a left leaning biased Obama FIB factory. They are funded by the Annenberg foundation, which Obama and Bill Ayers both were board members – although Obama claims he doesn’t know Mr. Ayers.
FactCheck did not, and is not capable of forging this:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_t…
Here is confirmation that it is the official and only birth certificate that Hawaii issues
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574320190095246658.html)
Snopes is accurate in its comments about Michelle Obama. She used the phrase native country exactly the same way that Kennedy and Reagan did to describe Ireland, the country where their ancestors came from.
Here is the first of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.
http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html
Notice where it says that there is an original birth certificate filed. Well, in 1961 foreign birth certificates, even those from other states, could not be filed in Hawaii. So the birth certificate in Obama’s files must be a Hawaii birth certificate.
Here is the second of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-ob…
Notice where it says that the document in the files VERIFIES that Obama was born in Hawaii. So, not only is there an official Hawaiian birth certificate in the files, but it says right on it that Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii has never allowed the Department of Health to issue a birth document of any kind that says on it that anyone was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii, and that is what the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice.
And here is the confirmation by the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican, that says that Obama was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/0…
And here is the statement of a witness who recalls being told of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, in 1961:
http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495…
"FactCheck did not, and is not capable of forging this"
Ellen/Ellana/Ellena/granite/Granite??? as I've mentioned before on other articles,
how is factcheck not capable when I generated copies that look exactly like factcheck's
with relatively simple software? (minus the seal, and I wouldn't forge a seal.
So would some software that was already available before Obama considered running
be considered forgery software?
"Hey guys, let us invent a program that can make perfect forgeries of a gift certificate for
some savior who shall be named O'bama and let us make it look exactly like some
gift certificate on a website that shall be called factcheck dot org!"
Sure you did.
Do not question the State. Questioning the State is outrageous. The State has given all you need to be happy. You have been bought and paid for. You are outrageous to be questioning the state. Who do you think you are? What do you think you are? Critical thinking is not taught and is forbidden. Free thinkers are outrageous and a threat to the State. Threats to the State threaten your free state Government Health Care, free Government Education, Free Government Welfare and State run Corporations and Labor Unions. You must stop this outrageous questioning and behavior. We do not need you evidence. We do not need a court of law. The State has told you the truth now shut up, sit down and enjoy your state provided happiness.
A part of critical thinking is to accept facts. As shown above, THREE Republican officials have confirmed that he was born in Hawaii.
Also: There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
And surely a critical thinker who believes that Obama was born outside if the USA could give a rational explanation for why an application for a US visa for him or to add him to his mother's US passport has not been found. Either, if they existed, would be in the files of applications for visas or applications for changes to passports in 1961–and yet nothing has been found.
A critical part of your thinking is to drink the KoolAid.
NO. I have cited the facts. It is those who ignore the facts who are drinking the KoolAid.
Actually, a part of "critical thinking" is to question the so-called facts and "dig" some more!
I would welcome whatever you come up with.
How do you account for this:
1) The facts on Obama’s official birth certificate were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
2) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
Remember, (actually no need to remember since she post that 50 times to
the same article, thanks for the constant reminder Ellen/Ellana/Ellena/granite/Granite)
She said "THREE Republican officials"
As if that makes some difference how?
They are not just officials, but Republicans!
How many people on these WJ articles have been converted by Ell**/Granite?
Actually, it would have to be FOUR officials who lied, the THREE Republicans and the clerk who filled in the form that generated the Certification. And at the time the attorney general of Hawaii was a Conservative Republican who could prosecute these officials for fraud if they were found to be lying. At the very least they would be unable to work in a Republican administration again.
And, no surprise to anyone, you have not replied to the two points.
Actually, it would have to be FOUR officials who lied, the THREE Republicans and the clerk who filled in the form that generated the Certification. And at the time the attorney general of Hawaii was a Conservative Republican who could prosecute these officials for fraud if they were found to be lying. At the very least they would be unable to work in a Republican administration again.
granite forgot to also add
"And no suprise to anyone, you have not replied to the two points"
granite/ellen?
Well, you haven't. Why not?
Don't you have some explanation of how a child born in Kenya could get to the USA without either a visa or being entered on a US passport?
How about the notices in the newspapers? You can claim that they were placed by the relatives, but there is evidence that relatives could not place such notices and that they were only generated by the government department of vital records, and there is evidence that Hawaii did not allow "walk in" birth registrations.
Which two points?
The paragraph
"Actually, it would have to be FOUR officials who lied, the THREE Republicans and the clerk who filled in the form that generated the Certification. And at the time the attorney general of Hawaii was a Conservative Republican who could prosecute these officials for fraud if they were found to be lying. At the very least they would be unable to work in a Republican administration again. "
posted by ellen
or the paragraph
"Actually, it would have to be FOUR officials who lied, the THREE Republicans and the clerk who filled in the form that generated the Certification. And at the time the attorney general of Hawaii was a Conservative Republican who could prosecute these officials for fraud if they were found to be lying. At the very least they would be unable to work in a Republican administration again. "
posted by granite?
Why not reply to one of them?
Or, you could try to reply to all of these:
1) The facts on Obama’s official birth certificate were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
2) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
Yes,No, D all the above.
Useless.
Hihoze, the State is like this passage from Jeremiah speaking of an idol fashioned by the hand of man out of the wood he used to fashion that idol while he warmed hiself by the residue of that tree and cooked his meal. The State is inanimate and does nothing of itself so when we follow the dictates of the State we are under the rule of man. Our Constitution is based on principles that are no more arbitrary than the law of gravity. We can prosper under the rule of these principles for they are neither selfish nor arbitrary, always producing the same results. But we must be faithful in obedience to those principles.
~ Jer 10:1 ¶ Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. ~
hihoze-And who the hell do you think you're talking to- -a bunch of 2nd graders?? Pull your head out that "dark hole" and fly away!
You do realize he's on YOUR side, right? I know that irony is often wasted here.
It gets kind of blurry here does it? LOL
Obama's "Certification of Live Birth" does not prove that he is qualified as an Article II natural born citizen. A natural born citizen is a person born in the US to two citizen parents, and neither the US Supreme Court nor the 14th Amendment changed this definition. Obama’s father was not a US citizen. pResident Obama admits that Obama Sr. was a British subject, and Obama Sr.'s children are also British subjects, including pResident Obama. Furthermore, Hawaii had a statute which allows a foreign born person to obtain a state birth certificate. Obama's half-sister Maya Soetoro was born in Indonesia, yet she has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth–just like Obama's. So a Hawaiian birth registration is not necessarily proof that a birth occurred within the state of Hawaii (see Hawaii’s HRS 338-17.7, et al), nor that the person is a natural born citizen. Now Tim Adams, a former Hawaiian state election official, has signed an affidavit stating that no government official in Hawaii could find a long-form birth certificate for Obama. Mr. Adams also stated that he believes that Obama was not born in Hawaii.
Re: "A natural born citizen is a person born in the US to two citizen parents…"
Who told you that? It is WRONG. The reason that the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election UNANIMOUSLY is that not one single member believed the two-parent theory. And the US Supreme court has turned down every birther case. That is because the meaning of Natural Born in America (not Switzerland) at the time that the Constitution was written referred to citizenship due to the PLACE of birth. It never referred to the parents. American leaders writing at the time never used the phrase Natural Born to refer to the parents.
"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
"Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might be divided into two classes: natural born citizens, or those born within the state, and aliens, or such as were born out of it. The first, by their birth-right, became entitled to all the privileges of citizens; the second, were entitled to none, but such as were held out and given by the laws of the respective states prior to their emigration. …St. George Tucker, BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. (1803)
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
One question, Ellen, should the child born to a Mexican family in the United States without legal papers be eligible to be president?
Yes. Does this shock you?
Diaz-Salazar v. INS, 700 F.2d 1156 (7th Cir. 1983) (child born in US to Mexican citizen is “natural born citizen” of US):
“Petitioner, Sebastian Diaz-Salazar, entered the United States illegally [from Mexico] in 1974 and has been living and working in Chicago since that time. *** The relevant facts which have been placed before the INS, BIA, and this court can be summarized as follows: The petitioner has a wife and two children under the age of three in Chicago; the children are natural-born citizens of the United States.”
Yes. Does this shock you?
Diaz-Salazar v. INS, 700 F.2d 1156 (7th Cir. 1983) (child born in US to Mexican citizen is “natural born citizen” of US):
“Petitioner, Sebastian Diaz-Salazar, entered the United States illegally [from Mexico] in 1974 and has been living and working in Chicago since that time. *** The relevant facts which have been placed before the INS, BIA, and this court can be summarized as follows: The petitioner has a wife and two children under the age of three in Chicago; the children are natural-born citizens of the United States.”
No they should not be allowed to be President no matter what Bla Blah Diaz-Salazar v. INS, 700 F.2d 1156 (7th Cir. 1983) (child born in US to Mexican citizen is “natural born citizen” of US): says.
The Constitutional way to prevent the child of an illegal immigrant from being president is to vote against her or him.
Tim Adams is a liar. http://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/honolul…
He had no access to birth certificate files, and TWO Republican officials have confirmed that there was an original birth certificate in the file, and THREE Republican officials in total have confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.
Also, there were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
Hey how you doing today? I think you should like get a website that links all this stuff and like post it there, cause then we can just click one time and read everything. How that copy of the whole page from the newspaper from 1961 coming? Interesting part is that my friend that lives there can't even find it in either papers archives either. Is that protected to? But he said all others are available. Shame we could added the to list and maybe won this discussion. Well I'm going back to start counting to 3.73 Trillion again, ya cause that darn Bush sure screwed us up and stuff. I see today they want to charge him with war crimes, ya he started it all and I heard he hired all those people to fly them planes, Bomb the USS Cole, bomb the embassies in Africa and he even drove that rental truck under the trade centers in 1993. Ya we deserved all that stuff cause we really have never helped with disasters anywhere in this world ever. That evil Bush sure should get his just punishment. Ya. Have a nice day now.
" I think you should like get a website that links all this stuff and like post it there, cause then we can just click one time and read everything."
When people keep repeating the same dumb comments, you expect different answers?
Obama while campaigning PROMISED a transparent adminstration but it is really an opaque one.
Obamacre was never on CSPAN as he said it would be. Mostly it was written behind closed doors witha gaurd outside. The rules and regulations are being written now and will be about 10,000 pages long. The death panels still exist. Much of the bill had nothing to do with health, e,g, now only the government can give student loans. Also there is a provision that would allow Obama to confiscate your gold (like FDR did in the 1930's).You people who voted for Obama were hoodwinked, and now we all suffer with you. Our national debt is $14.5TRILLION and rising.
Elena; grow up. Hawaii did not become a state until 1959. It was a TERRITORY of the US before that. In 1961, anyone that was born elsewere could file a short certificate as being born in Hawaii. When I fought in Korea, we only had 48 states. HE HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE at the time because they had none. Why, pray tell, did they erect a statue of O in Indonesia, bragging that one of their own was president of these United States? And then, his wife, I guess mispoke, when she said , on tape, his land was Kenya, where his father was from. Wake up people, and don't listen to these indoctrinated kids!
I am not Elena, but I will answer.
Obama hasn't published his long form birth certificate for two good reasons.
First, he does not have it. He does not have it because Hawaii sent him the new, short-form birth certificate—which is what it sends to everyone.
Second, there is no need to show the long-form because the short-form is now the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, and the fact that he was born in Hawaii was confirmed by THREE Republican officials.
Obama was born in 1961, AFTER Hawaii became a state. Whether he would have been eligible if he were born before 1959 is an interesting, though irrelevant, question. Barry Goldwater ran for president even though he was born when Arizona was still a territory.
I don't believe that having a statue of someone in a country means much. There are lots of statues of Joan of Arc in the USA–but she never even visited America.
The idea that Obama was born in Kenya is CRAZY. Michelle did not say that he was born there. Neither did his Kenyan grandmother.
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Explain please how Obama's parents could have gotten Obama from Kenya to Hawaii without either a US visa or having him entered on his mother's passport, and if they had gotten such a document, then why hasn't the application for it been found? The files of applications for such documents are still in the State Department's files, and there weren't all that many such applications in Kenya in 1961–so why hasn't it been found?
Okay, take a fantasy trip and say that they slipped Obama past US immigration. Then, you must hold that they did BOTH that and they convinced the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii. But the latter is not possible either because Hawaii did not just take the word of people that a child was born in Hawaii. They insisted on witnesses whenever a child was born outside of a hospital.
Linda Lingle IS NOT God – -neither is barry soetoro (aka obama) and he definitely is NOT exempt! In fact, he's more than eligible for arrest for high crimes, espionage, TREASON and enough "other stuff" to fill an entire book! It no longer matters where he was born, nor does it matter if he ever shows us another "falsified" (forged) document. I firmly believe barry and company will be going away soon and the departure will be quite "permanent"! Factcheck.org is another "worthless" scam!
Linda Lingle is certainly not God. But are you saying that she and three other Republican officials (four officials including the clerk, whose political party we do not know) are lying about Obama's place of birth? You know, of course, that there was a Conservative Republican attorney general in Hawaii at the time, who could have prosecuted the four if he had found that they were lying.
However, you certainly have the right to encourage your senators and representatives to begin investigations on any subject. They could, if they had the votes, impeach Obama for having done anything or been born anywhere–but they will not even look into it.
By the way, if Obama were impeached, Biden would become the president.
Part 1
Citizen Tells Senate Minority Leader Why Obama is not a natural born Citizen
Posted on February 16th, 2011 by David-Crockett
The Post & Email
“HE WAS NOT ELIGIBLE TO RUN”
Usuper faceDear Editor,
(Feb. 15, 2011) — I e-mailed the following letter to Senator McConnell this morning:
February 15, 2011
Dear Senator McConnell,
I am writing to you as Senate Minority Leader, representing me as a Republican.
America has a non-documented, non-naturalized, Indonesian citizen-dual citizen usurper sitting in the White House, Barack Hussein Obama/Soebarkah/Barry Soetoro. His mother Ann Dunham Soetoro listed him on her 1965 passport #F777788, issued July 19, 1965, renewed July 18, 1970, as Barack Hussein Obama and also as Soebarkah. His Indonesian step-father Lolo Soetoro gave him his name Barry Soetoro when he adopted him and entered Barry in an Indonesian school.
There is a vast difference between ‘citizen’ and ‘natural-born Citizen’ as required by the Constitution to be eligible for President and Vice-President.
Obama/Soebarkah/Barry Soetoro admits he was born of a foreign father who was born a British subject of a British colony and then became a Kenyan citizen, but Obama Sr. was NEVER a U.S. American citizen. Obama/Soebarkah/Barry Soetoro is therefore NOT a NATURAL-BORN citizen. If America is to believe the usurper’s claimed-but-not-proven-parentage, he was not eligible to run for President in 2008, under our U.S. Constitutional requirements. You, all of congress and the Supreme Court have defied our Constitution, by allowing this fraud and deception to continue in the Oval office of the people’s White House.
Obama/Soebarkah/Barry Soetoro’s purported mother, Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro (there is no long-form birth certificate provided to prove that she actually gave birth to him) was too young to confer U.S. citizenship on Obama at birth, since she was not yet 19 years old as required by law when he was born in August, 1961. At best he is an “anchor-baby”, and a DUAL-CITIZEN. There is no evidence that after he was adopted by his step-father Lolo Soetoro and entered in an Indonesian school listing Indonesian citizenship for him that he ever naturalized himself as an American citizen.
Please live up to the oath you took to our Constitution, Article. II, Section 1, that “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”
The Constitution was read aloud in the House recently. During that reading a courageous woman named Theresa Cao called out at the time those very words above were read, “Except Obama, except Obama, help us, Jesus!” Her cry was the cry of millions of Americans who believe Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro is illegally holding the office of the President and Commander-in-Chief.
Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro has spent millions to hide his birth certificate and all his life documents, and he has withheld those documents, that would have exonerated a military hero, much-decorated combat veteran LTC Dr. Terrence Lakin, who now languishes in Fort Leavenworth military prison without income, without pension, without rank, because the usurper hides his documentation.
cont'd on part 2
Unless a birther can come up with a rational answer to this, nothing will be done:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Part 2
Former-speaker Pelosi sent 2 different certification forms to the Secretaries-of-State, 49 of them were lacking the crucial Constitutional requirement paragraph. Why did Former-speaker Pelosi certify to documents lacking the verbiage about Constitutional eligibility?
Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro used a Social Security number 042-68-4425 which was issued by the State of Connecticut in March, 1977 and was connected to someone born in 1890. Just how did the usurper obtain that SSN issued by Connecticut when he never lived in Connecticut, and no other state was allowed to issue that number?
You can verify that Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro used SSN 042-68-4425 to register for the draft, by going to the Selective Service website:
https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx
and entering:
Obama
042684425
08041961
and up will come Obama’s Selective Service number 61-1125539-1:
Last Name: obama
Social Security Number: *** – ** – 4425
Date of Birth: 08/04/1961
Selective Service Number:
61-1125539-1
Date of Registration
9/4/1980
Senator McConnell, please live up to your oath to the Constitution to protect the U.S. from all enemies foreign and domestic, and investigate Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro’s fraudulent Presidential campaign, which under the Constitution REQUIRES the President to be a NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN.
Please uphold the principles of our Founding Fathers and our Constitution.
Senator McConnell, please do not turn a deaf-ear and a blind-eye and brush aside and disregard this eligibility Constitutional crisis.
Please take action to have Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro’s original, non-forged, long-form, parent-signed, doctor-signed and registrar-signed, birth certificate subpoenaed, along with his SS-5 application form for his Connecticut SSN, and provide them to the American people.
This issue of Obama/Soebarkah/Soetoro’s ineligibility for President is not going away. The American people in their millions will not let you or congress or the supreme court sweep it under the rug. There are 10 states working on passing state laws to require proof of Constitutional eligibility in time for the 2012 election.
Sincerely,
Paula Hoehn
© 2011, The Post & Email.
Why is it that someone who questions the legitimacy of someone who has spent almost $2,000,000 to hide their past are called derogatory names? Don't you want to know what secrets Obama is hiding are worth spending that much money to hide? The founding fathers knew that this kind of situation would arise. When someone has foreign parents or a foreign parent, that person is not a natural born citizen. Especially when the other parent is a minor. Even if Obama was born in Hawaii ( and there is considerable evidence that he was not), he is a dual citizen! Dual citizens are specifically prohibited from being POTUS! And, since these facts are known, why is he protected from being challenged on this subject?! I, and many others, simply want the man to be shown to be what he is, a poser who is not even eligible to be President! And, since he was probably born in Kenya, to a British subject father and a minor mother, he is probably British!!!
Short answers:
He never spent the money. This is a birther myth.
The reason that the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election unanimously is that dual citizenship, like the citizenship of the parents, has no effect on Natural Born Citizen status. Every US citizen who was born in the USA is a Natural Born Citizen. Only naturalized citizens are not Natural Born Citizens.
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Obama has hidden his true identity from the public. The Certificate of Live Birth that Obama produced is the same document that any foreign-born citizen can acquire in Hawaii. His alias’s are too many to even guess what his real legal name is – Barry Soetoro was his last know legal name!
And, there's no documentation showing that he ever "legally" changed his name to Barack Obama after it was legally changed to Barry Soetoro. There's evidence that he attended Occidental College as a foreign student under the name Barry S. Obama. Finally, there's the fact that, if Barack Obama Sr. is his father. he inherited British citizenship from his father and that fact alone precludes him from claiming the status of natural born – no matter where he was born.
Re: "the Certificate of Live Birth that Obama produced is the same document that any foreign-born citizen can acquire in Hawaii. "
Answer: It is impossible to acquire a CertificaTION (that is the right name) of Live Birth that says on it "born in Honolulu"–which Obama's does–unless there was actual evidence of birth in Hawaii. Hawii did not allow "walk in" birth registrations. And it did not and does not allow the Certification to lie about the place of birth. Obama's certification says on it that he was born in Honolulu, and that is the fact that THREE Republican officials have confirmed.
Obama never legally changed his name from Obama to Soetoro, or anything else, so he did not have to change it back. The "evidence" that Obama received foreign student aid from Occidental comes ONLY from an April Fool's article.
The citizenship of Obama's father is irrelevant to Natural Born Citizen status since Obama was born in Hawaii, as has been proven.
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
Where's the evidence? I haven't seen it, although I would like to!
Here is the evidence:
Here is a photocopy of Obama’s official birth certificate. Notice the seal on the back. Yes, it is on Factcheck’s site, but the idea that they could forge such a detailed document and the seal is laughable.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_t…
Here is confirmation that it is the official and only birth certificate that Hawaii issues
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574320190095246658.html)
Here is the first of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.
http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html
Notice where it says that there is an original birth certificate filed. Well, in 1961 foreign birth certificates, even those from other states, could not be filed in Hawaii. So the birth certificate in Obama’s files must be a Hawaii birth certificate.
Here is the second of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-ob…
Notice where it says that the document in the files VERIFIES that Obama was born in Hawaii. So, not only is there an official Hawaiian birth certificate in the files, but it says right on it that Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii has never allowed the Department of Health to issue a birth document of any kind that says on it that anyone was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii, and that is what the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice.
And here is the confirmation by the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican, that says that Obama was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/0…
And here is the statement of a witness who recalls being told of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, in 1961:
http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495…
Obama/Soetoro should be removed from office for a many reasons, but that doesn't fit into the politicians’ goal of destroying freedom in America and turning it into a third world communist dictatorship. Everybody will have to resign to the fact that we’ll have to go Egypt on this regime, or we have to roll over and take what these tyrants dish out. I say remove him from office now! http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2349/petition-…
"Go Egypt" I like it. I used to tell guys working on wilderness trails to work like an Egyptian, smarter not harder.
Dream on.
Go Egypt. I like that! Hey Zero said that was democracy in action! Why not try it here? Even though we used to be a constitutional republic. Maybe we can get back there again–with the Lord's help!
Guest how do you know that the Lord is not leading in all this questioning of Obama. We have been Merrily skipping along this path from Roosevelt's New Deal and now that the fruit is beginning to mature we find it not to our liking. Obama is not the cause but he is the effect. He was blindly elected as our nation closed its eyes to all the red flags fluttering in his wake and we have serious apoligizers supporting his agenda but we know nothing of their actual belief nor anything substantive about Obama himself. What they say is what they want us to accept as true. What they actually know is as vague as Obama. himself.
Why is it that a little league baseball player has to show his "Birth Certificate" (not the phoney Obama kind of "Certificate of Live Birth" (kind of like an animal certificate of birth to the AKC), but Obama can get away with his scam in courts, congress etc…and be in our highest office, as president? Our whole system of "Republc" government has been corrupted! Thankfully some of the states are doing something to avoid this Constitutional disaster in the future…The Federal officials are a bunch of clowns, for doing nothing!
When O'Reilly states on his program last night, that it doesn't matter where he was born, isn't that the same as saying the Constitution is irrelevant? A name was invented to be demeaning of anyone who questioned his elligibility, a typical liberal ploy to distract from the real matter. If a foreigner can run for office, maybe Hugo Chavez or Bin Laden can jump in too.
O'Reilly and all the rest of the so-called media (Including FOX) are all in the bag for Obama, and are complicit in hiding the facts of Obama's birth. Once Obama is proven to be ineligible for the presidency of the United States, I wonder how they will try to cover up their incompetence?!
Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, which is accepted for little league and for US passports. It is the official birth certificate, used by THOUSANDS of people every year.
ellen…You can get the SAME document Obama did from Hawaii, if you live there. You DO NOT have to be born there to get it. You CAN NOT use Obama's document for benefits in Hawaii. It is not a "Certified Birth Record" which contains the Doctors name and all other pertinent information, unlike the "Certificate of Live Birth" Obama has.
Compare your own Birth Certificate to Obama's and come back and tell me they are the same. If they are, then you weren't born in the United States either!
Actually, you cannot get the same document if you are not born there. A Certification of Live Birth is not allowed to lie about the place of birth. Thus, if a person were born in, say, New Jersey, she or he would get a Hawaii certification that said something like: "Hawaii certification of live birth, place of birth: New Jersey")
Obama's place of birth show distinctly on his Certification clearly says Honolulu, Hawaii–and that is the fact that THREE Republican officials have confirmed.
The Certification of Live Birth is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, used by THOUSANDS of people every year. It is a short-form birth certificate, but many if not most US states have gone to short-form birth certificates. The Certification of Live Birth is accepted by ALL the departments in Hawaii (yes, including DHHL, I checked) as proof of birth in Hawaii. And, it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military.
I am not from Hawaii, so I cannot compare, but TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in Hawaii have received the Certification of Live Birth, and they can compare. And, so far as I know, not one of them has said that their Certification and Obama's Certification look any different.
There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
ellen..look at YOUR Birth Certificate…Compare it to Obama's…any difference? Note that on your "Birth Certificate" is the name of the delivery "Doctor". Who delivered Obama? Where? When? How? and the biggest question Why? Please answer ALL these questions! I don't need any more answers about the fake "Certificate of Live Birth"! Just the answers to my questions! By the way, that last question "why" is just a way of saying…it's too bad Obama's mother didn't advocate for abortion like Obama does. this world would be a BETTER place!
I have a short-form birth certificate and it DOES NOT show the name of the doctor. That is the official birth certificate of my state, and the short-form birth certificate is also the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the only one that Hawaii has sent out to anyone–even people born before 2001–since it became the official birth certificate in 2001. THOUSANDS of people use it every year to prove that they were born in the USA.
Who delivered George Bush?
Now that we are asking each other questions, how about explaining this:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Bingo; That was never the question his family has a very well documented history, unlike Barry. The Bush family has had three generations of elected officials that I know. It may off even been 4. See your response in asking Who delivered Bush is silly response. My goodness George Senior was shot down in the war. His Citizenship and his fathers is very well documented by there military service. I know George JR was just in the National Guard, but the Bush family is one of the easiest family histories to track. Unlike Barry. His granny and grampa ran to Hawaii to hang out because they didn't fit in with the folks from the plains. You know their political views at that time were not popular.A bunch of people did that because Hawaii was not yet a state and they could gather with like kind and were not outcasts. One of their best friends that was black was over there to, can you tell me his name? Very Famous is some circles. Very interest and quite controversial at the time. Not brithering here just pointing out that using Bush as an example is no where near the same. Ya wanta know a secret. My grandmother on my dad side and her family have a lot of overlapping history with the Bush family. You know the good old oil days in Texas a long long time ago. She was just a little older than Prescott Bush. So I am sure a very high dollar doctor birth George, if you would like to check that out. No comparison. But the first part of the story about Barry's history is quite revealing and shows what his upbringing was like after he turn 10 and return from Indonesia. Just a recommendation that apples and oranges don't compare that easily. You have a nice weekend.
Clowns No. Traitors!!!!
Why not discuss the facts?
Guest..You are absolutely correct. I believe clowns would do a better job to find the truth. Maybe in 2012 we should vote for clowns to take their places….it certainly couldn't be any crazier!
"Maybe in 2012 we should vote for clowns to take their places"
You think Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Joe Miller and Alvin Greene would be willing to run again?
I'm sure they would do a MUCH better job than the real idiots that have been there for over 2 months! At this point it would be a great idea to replace everybody in all branches of government! Maybe with monkeys from the zoo! They couldn't do any worse than the monkey see, monkey do, that we have now.
Abercrombie cites privacy laws. That's a joke. Obama posts an untested photo online and Abercrombie can't even verify that it was real. Forging an official document is illegal and using it is a fraud. Prosecuting that rises to having a tangible interest in the originals if they exist. Note that Abercrombie never stated he saw any long form birth documents as did the previous governor. How then could either determine the status of Obama? It is quite clear that both these people have made statements which if shown to be un true will be prosecuted so whatever they say it should be viewed through that lens. The first job of the next administration should be to unravel the lies and slap every one of these traitors in prison. If we are to live by the rule of law it must provide both a protection and a penalty as well as a process to enforce it. What ever happened to the first amendment right to petition? That's right, it was struck down by the courts. You may petititon but nobody has to read it.
Re: "Forging an official document is illegal and using it is a fraud.."
Obama's official birth certificate from Hawaii, the Certification of Live Birth, was NOT forged. There was a CONSERVATIVE Republican attorney general in Hawaii for the last four years until December. If he had thought that the birth certificate was forged, or the THREE Republican officials who confirmed the facts on it were lying, he could have prosecuted them–but he didn't. And the McCain campaign also checked out the allegation of the birth certificate being forged, and found that it was false.
As tedstevens has pointed out:
"There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.])."
Ellen, aren't those buttons you keep pounding on about wore out. With all your much speaking there is nothing new and the evidence is too unreliable to use for evidence. I don't need to convince you of this for you already know it to be true. I notice many more who have come to this same conclusion.
And yet there are many more who think birthers are nuts. Does that mean you agree with them?
IF Obama were born in any other country than the USA, you would be able to explain these two points:
1) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
2) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
In addition to those two, you would have to explain why THREE Republican officials would lie about Obama's place of birth and why Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a letter from Hawaii.
Two things that need fixing—education system and the courts!!!
A majority of the people now realize Obama is not eligible to be POTUS. Now what do we do about it? It's plain as the nose on our face that the SCOTUS will do nothing. When Obama wins re-election we'll still be hollering he's not eligible. The only solution is to start demonstrating in the streets as they did in Egypt, that got attention. Obama said himself about Egypt that this was democracy at work. So what is wrong with us doing it here? I realize many people must work and can't demonstrate but if we don't stop this usurper we won't have anything much less a job!!
It is your Constitutional right to demonstrate, and though I disagree with you, I would fight to the death for your right to demonstrate.
However, you should know that the last birther rally in Washington, the one that Berg held, drew a few hundred people or less.
It is not a birther rally–It is a Constitutional rally. At least get that part right.
Good luck in your Constitutional rally. Maybe you will draw more than the couple of hundred who showed up for the last birther rally in Washington.
Okay, if the Truth of Obama's ineligibility to be the president makes me a "Birther", what are they called that except Obama's lies as truth? Maybe we could call them "Hatchers", which could cover both conceivable alternatives….Either he was "hatched", not birthed, or the "hatched" lie has been planned all along, and many are being deceived. Take your pick "Hatcher"!
The reason that all 535 members of the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election UNANIMOUSLY is that not one single one of them believed that Obama was born outside of the USA or that the citizenship of his father has any effect on Obama's Natural Born Citizen status.
Or they are ALL a bunch of cowards?! If they have "proof" of his citizenship, why do they hide it? Show everything, if he has nothing to hide! Obama has already been convicted by the lack of evidence in his defense, with overwhelming proof of his guilt!
I am totally blown away, by so called Americans, who refuse to think logically! No wonder this country is in decline! Obama is leading the delusional straight to HELL!
The proof of Obama's Natural Born Citizenship is the official birth certificate of Hawaii. That is sufficient. It is legal proof. However, in addition to that THREE Republican officials have confirmed the facts on it.
Why didn't George Bush show his birth certificate if he had nothing to hide?
Because George Bush was born to (2) United States born citizens…Obama was "Birthed" (Birther) or 'Hatched' (Non-Birther) from an United States born mother, and a Kenyan/British born father….making Obama ineligible for the office of President of the United States!
I'll bet George Bush would show his "Birth Certificate" if requested…Something Obama refuses to do! Why?
Actually, Obama HAS shown his official birth certficate, which is something that George Bush did not do. It is legal proof of birth in Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed by THREE Republican officials.
The citizenship of Obama's father has no effect on Obama's eligibility. That is why all 535 members of the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's birth unanimously.
As for GB showing his birth certificate "if he were asked," that is total speculation.
That's right! What's good for the Egyptians should be good for the Tea Party!!!
Except that when they protest, Egyptians can turn out a crowd larger than of that typical for a small-town high school football game.
"A majority of the people now realize Obama is not eligible to be POTUS"
Sorry, making up stuff doesn't make it fact. Even a "majority" of conservatives don't believe that in any poll I've seen, let alone "a majority of people."
Only those that can think rationally, "know" Obama is ineligible for the position of president!
You are dreaming, not thinking rationally. Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed by three Republican officials in Hawaii. That is why all 535 members of Congress voted to confirm Obama. The US Supreme Court has turned down every birther case.
It is very logical to depend on what I can see, over the illogical belief of what someone tells me "they" saw! Why would I believe anyone else, reguardless of what political party they are from? It is illogical to say politicians' don't lie! The biggest liar of all is Obama!
Everyone who believes Obama is being deceived! EVERYONE! That is the TRUTH!
It is not a question of believing Obama. It is a question whether his birth certificate is valid, and THREE Republican officials have confirmed the facts on it.
Also:
There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
And, if a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
Rational thinking requires considering these facts.
Why is it more logical to believe THREE Republican officials, than to believe THREE Democrat officials? I will not believe it until I SEE IT! My own eyes will tell me what I need to see! It isn't a fact until it is proven true! If ALL these people have SEEN the REAL long form "Certificate of Birth", why don't they make a copy and show everybody? It doesn't exist, or they are hiding some hideous facts!
Ellen..Earlier you mentioned having a short form "Certificate of Live Birth" like Obama's. Can you get a long form of your "Birth Certificate"? You know the one with the name of your delivery Dr. or Midwife on it? The City you were born in? The Registrars Name, Date of Filing, and the Seal of Certification? (A signed copy of Certification, under Penalty of Law?) When I see Obama's CERTIFIED copy of this, I will logically believe! Until then…I AM A BIRTHER! All I want is TRUTH!
When Obama was running for the Senate, there were literally dozens of articles online where he himself stated that he was born in Kenya.
His wife even gave many speeches where she stated that her husband was from Kenya.
It’s obvious that Obama’s knowledge of America was either limited or nonexistent as he demonstrated when he said during the campaign that he had visited 57 states. He had no idea that the Constitution required anyone occupying the office of president to be a natural born citizen.
Evidently, somebody in the Demoncrat Party knew a little about the Constitution, because all the online posts disappeared except one they forgot. http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastand…
Why would anyone spend 2 million to stop this story?
Illegitimacy? Obama Sr. not, in fact, his father? Who knows. And that's the problem.
Short answer: He didn't. That is a birther creation, a total lie.
The Wall Street Journal said:
"Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted."
Short answer: He did, in fact, make sealing his records the first item on his agenda after TAKING office.
So, what's he hiding? Malcolm X is daddy?
It is a birther myth that the first executive order seals Obama's birth certificate and college records. The fact is that it does not apply to either of them. It applies ONLY to the federal presidential records of presidents and former presidents, and it actually makes it tougher for presidents and former presidents to seal those records than the similar executive order under George Bush. In any case, it has absolutely no effect on state or college or private organization records. Those records were private before the executive order, and just as private after the executive order.
Perhaps the better question would be, "Why would anyone spend 2 million to HIDE the facts?"
Re the alleged $2 million.
Short answer; He didn't
The Wall Street Journal said:
"'Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?' X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted."
At one time, I had about 10 links in my favorites folder to articles and interviews with Obama, and in every one of them he either said he was a native born Kenyan or agreed with the interviewer that he was born in Kenya.
Michelle Obama stated the same thing many times in speeches, and many of them are still available online on youtube. If Barack Obama Sr. is really his father, then Obama inheritied British and Kenyan citizenship from his father, and he can NOT be considered a natural born citizen because he was born a British cubject no matter where he as born. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJihJBePcs&NR…
Would love to see those 10 links, especially if they contain Obama's actual quotes regarding his Kenyan pob. Don't know how I missed them. Thanks.
They were all scrubbed from the internet shortly after Obama posted his COLB. When I tried to go back to them, I got ERROR 404, page does not exist! The only one left that hasn't been scrubbed is one from an African paper. Download it before it's gone. http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastand…
Dm Ex,
Thanks. Just checked out the link above. Didn't see an Obama quote in text of story confirming his Kenyan birth. In first para, the reporter took the liberty of presenting this "fact" but without credting Barack as the source of this information. Rats!
But, if you ever do run across an actual Obama quote attesting to his having been born in Kenya, PLEASE pass it on to the rest of us.
Yeah, people in the administration are no doubt searching the web to "scrub" it of goofy birther content. Really??!!
The idea that Obama was born in Kenya is laughable.
The conservative National Review said this about it: “The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.”
I have pointed out that:
"If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII."
Tedstevens,
Are you plagarizing Ellen's commentary or is your reply a template of sorts. Word for word. Interesting.
Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, and has proven it with the official birth certificate of Hawaii and the facts on that birth certificate were confirmed by three Republican officials in Hawaii.
For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:
(1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);
(2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);
(3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);
(4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);
(5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document such as a US visa or his being entered on a US passport, either of which, if it existed, would have easily been found (extremely unlikely), and;
(6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely. Hawaii did not accept “walk in birth registrations”).
ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?
The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.
tedsevens has pointed out:
"There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII."
Ellen, you should watch this You Tube Video. Do you think it was produced by some slick Internet Con Artist by pasting snippets together, or would you say it is legitimate? The words spoken come from the person speaking in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&fe…
In fact, Gunner, if you'd take three seconds to read the description below the video you'd see that it's a "contrived" spoof. The Obamasnippets creator has expressed surprise elsewhere at how many people are apparently gullible enough to believe his videos.
Do you doubt that Obama claims to have been borne in Hiwaii? He is a very clever poliyician and I'd bet that he knew about the privacy law that is in effect in Hiwaii and that it would block any information about his birth.
Obama was in fact born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate and the confirmation of THREE Republican officials in Hawaii shows.
She is such a lady. She should be from the South where women can cut you down with honey dripping from their lethal lips with a smile and a "Bless your heart". Go get'em Sarah!
The point is, I believe, not the number of Americans who believe there may be any truth to this story but the fact that any Americans at all believe it, that sucvh suspition about the USPOTUS should exits at all is very disturbing and only made more disturbing that it is being side stepped by the White House at any cost; that is the real story here!
The people who believe this fantasy should consider this:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, they should consider that the facts on Obama's official birth certificate from Hawaii were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
If anyone really believes that Obama was born outside the USA, she or he would be able to explain
How come there has been no US visa for the child, nor has it been found that he was entered on the US passport of his mother.
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
The reason the questions don't die is based on facts. Obama has hired lawyers to prevent any information about his birth record,scool records or any other records that would prove or disprove his elegibility ! The so called proof the MSM claims is a certificate of live birth which is NOT an official birth certificate and notice of his birth in Hawaii newspapers. The COLB is provided to Hi residents upon request regardless of where they were born and the newspaper articles were undoubtably placed by the grandparents. Unless facts lie the facts are that Obama is hiding the truth and that is not the actions of someone who has nothing to hide !!
The Certification of Live Birth is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, used by thousands of people every year. It is not allowed to lie about the place of birth. Obama's says on it that he was born in Hawaii, and that fact has been confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
Obama does not have to release his school records, and no president ever has. If, however, in the 2012 election a Republican releases her or his records, Obama is likely to do the same.
Ellen, you do not know about what you write. A valid Birth Certificate in all States requires the name of the baby, the weight and length of the child when born, the names of the parents, the names of the attending physician, and the location of birth. The parents of children born at Tripler Army General Hospital were issued true Hawai'ian birth certificates in the year Obama was supposedly born in Hawai'i. Did a mid-wife help in the birth to Obama? Also, where are the marriage and divorce documents of Obama's parents, if they ever existed?. They have never been produced either. Was Obama born as an illegitimate child? If there is nothing to hide, why pay legal fees to keep his records sealed? Some day all of this will come to daylight. Remember, anyone born in the United States is considered a "Native Born Citizen," indicating the place of birth. A child of illegal alien parents born in the United States is a "Native Born Citizen" under our laws. The requirement is that a President must be a "Natural Born Citizen" — i.e., both parents must be American citizens at the time of the child's birth in the United States.
NO it doesn't. There are short form birth certificates, and many if not most states have already adopted them, and they do not show the name of the doctor or the hospital.
And the fact that the Certification of Live Birth is the official birth certificate of Hawaii is confirmed by the obvious fact that THOUSANDS of people use it every year, and by the fact that it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the military.
The Wall Street Journal said:
“The birthers have also misrepresented the law in the claims they have made about Obama’s birth certificate. In truth, Obama has proved that he is a native of Hawaii, and this proof would hold up in any legal or administrative proceeding.
In order to explain the birthers’ deception on this point, it is necessary to delve into the arcana of Hawaiian vital records. The document that Obama has released, which carries the title “certification of live birth,” confirms that the president was born in Honolulu. It is a legal birth certificate, and, as the Honolulu Star-Bulletin notes, it is the only kind of birth certificate the state of Hawaii issues….
Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”
Obama's parents divorce papers have been published. No president has ever shown the marriage license of his parents.
ALL US citizens who were born in the USA are Natural Born Citizens. Only naturalized US citizens are not Natural Born US citizens.
"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
What is particularly vile and infuriating–even mystifying– to me is how the subject is treated with such callous dismissiveness and disdain by the likes of Mr. "Fair & Balanced" O'Reilly and Mr. "Question with Boldness" Beck.
I viewed O'Reilly the other night as he was again disparaging the "birthers" and it was abundantly clear to me that he was not at all conversant with the facts of the case.
Could it really be that his crackerjack research team is as clueless as he? Or could it be that he is deliberately–and, may I say, artlessly–dodging the issue for some perverted, self-serving or, as yet, unknown reason?
Given the clout of these talking heads–and they DO so love hearing themselves talk–one would think they'd thoroughly investigate the facts and air their findings all in a public service effort to either authoritatively debunk the story altogether or to expose what may be some very unpleasant truths. But, alas, I ask too much of these… paragons… of integrity, objectivity, fearlessness and fairplay.
O"Reilly is a pompous a&&!! Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity worship the ground he walks on, so they'll never speak out against the self anointed Guru. The only talk show hosts who are not afraid of the Obama Administration are Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Savage. I don't know about Rush but Micheal is shunned by Fox News because he sees right threw O'Reilly and not afraid to call the phony out. I at one time thought O'Reilly was alright, but his a&& kissing of Geraldo and brow beating of so called birthers has certainly changed my opinion of him.
GWF O'Reilly pulled a stunt several years ago that took preparation concerning something I was active in and concerned about. Since that time his integrity has not existed.
If you really believe that Obama was born outside of the USA, you should be able to give convincing answers to these six points.
For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:
(1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);
(2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);
(3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);
(4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);
(5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document such as a US visa or his being entered on a US passport, either of which, if it existed, would have easily been found (extremely unlikely), and;
(6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely. Hawaii did not accept “walk in birth registrations”).
IN particular, how do you account for absence of either the application for a US visa or the application for Obama to be added to his mother's US passport? We do no allow children to be carried into the USA without such a document, and we certainly didn't in 1961–particularly when the child is alleged to have come from Africa. (To be sure, children can be carried across the Mexican and Canadian borders–but that does NOT apply to Hawaii.)
ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?
The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.
Why all the hand-wringing, rehashing, spinning and endless conjecturing?
I've a much better common sense idea: since the courts can't or won't give the case a fair hearing on its merits, why not a thorough investigation of the matter by the MSM? But, in lieu of such an exhaustive journalistic investigation, why not a long form birth certificate?
The point is we none of us know, for certain, what's what. And for me–and I hope you as well–, that is infuriating and unpardonable.
Re the MSM. They have not investigated whether 2+2 = 4 either, and for very much the same reason.
However, the Wall Street Journal said: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”
It is the birthers who conjecture.
They do not even try to answer such points as:
1) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
2) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Ellen do you read World Net Daily? All of the questions you posed can be answered by Jerome Corsi who has done extensive research as to many unanswered questions about Obama. The other person being Joseph Farrah the man behind the where's the B/C campaign. My memory isn't good enough anymore to answer your questions, but these men can. I'm sure after reading some of their writings you'll be questioning his birth place yourself. Besides that isn't the only thing that makes Obama ineligible. His father was a British subject as he was from Kenya. This makes Obama a British citizen under British law. I don't believe the founding fathers meant for a person with dual citizenship to be POTUS!!
Actually, Corsi has never even discussed the following:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Further to that, your allegation about Obama's Kenyan father affecting Obama's eligibility is laughable. If even ONE member of the US Congress had believed that, then Obama's election would not have been confirmed UNANIMOUSLY.
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)–Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT).
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Your assuming they obeyed the law. Tell that to the 12 million illegals in our Country right now. I would be willing to bet that more head turning and wink, wink, went on in 1961 than today.If everything was done legally and above board, there wouldn't be the questions that there are. People have been know to lie. I rest my case.
Re assuming they obeyed the law.
Are you trying to answer this: ": "If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND. "
So, are you saying that there was a way to break the law and get the child from Kenya to Hawaii without either a US visa or him being entered on his mother's passport? How, by bribing the officials? By smuggling the child in through Mexico or Canada (Hawaii does not have a border with either).
Then you would have to explain why they would even try to break the law in this way, when–IF the child were born in a foreign country–all that they would have to do is to naturalize him and get all the benefits of citizenship without the expense and risk of smuggling the child. All the benefits of US citizenship without the expense and risk, except of course for being eligible to be president. But why run the risk and expense of smuggling the child only for the opportunity for him to become president in 2008?
Yes, there are 12 million illegals in America, but according to the birther myth, Obama would have had to have been taken from Kenya to Hawaii, and Hawaii does not have a border with either Mexico or Canada. (Both probably would have required a visa or that the child be entered on his mother's passport to bring the child from Kenya to that country.)
FOX News has their people on a short leash about this issue. They will disparage almost anything and everything about Obama and his presidency, but they WILL NOT lend credence to the idea that his tenure is illegitimate. I'm of the opinion that FOX would be banished from the WH correspondents' pool if they were to address the subject with anything that expressed anything other than a negative opinion on the matter. The reporters on FOX will convey stories about the controversy, but they absolutely disavow any link to the issue; in fact, they make a point of deriding those who take the approach that Obama has hijacked the presidency.
For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:
(1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);
(2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);
(3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);
(4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);
(5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document such as a US visa or his being entered on a US passport, either of which, if it existed, would have easily been found (extremely unlikely), and;
(6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely. Hawaii did not accept “walk in birth registrations”).
ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?
The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.
How can the truth be told?????? Who will investigate the fact that BHO's records have been sealed and can't be researched? How can this be happening in our country? Why won't Congress do something? Or is someone researching in the background..God I hope so. THE TRUTH MUST BE TOLD.! ! ! ! ! !
Sandra the truth is being researched but it like trying to find your way out of a cave without a light. We are all blind in that kind of dark but we still have our nose that tells us something smells and we have our ears. If we find our way out we will have the needed light to see what we can only guess at now. So far there are no reliable reference points to take a bearing on so we are navigating by dead reckoning, The night is far spent and we will soon have the light of day. Obama has no control over that.
Obama's records are not sealed. They are simply private, like the birth certificates and school and college records of previous presidents and of ordinary people. HOWEVER, Obama has already shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and three Republican officials there have confirmed the facts on it–that he was born in Hawaii in 1961.
COLB is not the long form birth certificate, it was issued to anyone that wanted one at that time. Even Hawaiian officials will tell you that. When the COLB was first posted on line I read it. One thing stuck out to me right away. The first COLB said race of father as African American. There was no such thing in 1961,whoever phonied up the document was being PC and didn't realize that the term was not used back then not mentioning he wasn't even American. Anyway shortly there after it was changed to African. Guess what, African is not a race it's a nationality. In 1961 the term that would have used was Negro or Negroid. Not considered PC in today's world, but was correct terminology in 1961.
Asking for evidence and proof of citizenship is outrageous. Going to court to ask for more evidence is outrageous. Going to court to present evidence is outrageous. Unsealing the records of an historic figure to write about that historic figure is outrageous. Historians asking for historical records to record history is outrageous. Reporters asking questions is politically biased and outrageous. The State has told you He has a birth certificate and the official press has reported that He has a birth certificate. There is no "there, there" so please end this outrageous questioning and move on.
The American people have a right to all of this information. The Constitution requires the president to be a Natural Born citizen, and Obama is not. If you want this to go away, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Show all of his college records and his long form birth certificate as well as the legal documents where he changed his name to Barack Obama. Show us the Visa/passport he used when he traveled to Pakistan in 1982, (before he had an American passport). Show us the reinstatement of citizenship, after being an Indonesian citizen, that would have been required of him upon turning 18 years old.
After doing all of that, explain how he is eligible to be president when he was born, if Barack Obama Sr. is his father, a British subject! Then explain how being native born is the same as natural born and why our founders didn't just say future presidents have to be born on American soil. NAtural born means having two parents who are both American citizens.
If anything is outragious, it's people who try to tell us that we don't have the right to vet a man who wants to control our lives and our country. If you want this to end, show the damn papers or shut your face.
Demanding papers to determine if the President is Constitutionally eligible is outrageous. Demanding a public airing of His Constitutional eligibility is outrageous. Asking the Courts to allow evidence, seek evidence, present evidence and make rulings on such evidence is outrageous. States demanding that candidates present evidence of Constitutional eligibility in order to get on a state ballot is outrageous. Americans demanding the rule of law apply to politicians is outrageous. Applying the law equally is totally outrageous.
The only thing that is outrageous, is the fact that he is hiding all of his records. WHY? If you believe the official press & the media, as well as the people who continue to try to hide all of his records, then you are part of the problem. There is far more evidence that he is not a legal President, then there is that he is a legal President, so why not show the records & put a stop to all of this? Because he can't, that's why !!
You are questioning the State. That is outrageous. You are questioning the President and our dear leader, that is outrageous. You are questioning the Press and the State News, that is outrageous. Asking this historic president to stop hiding his background is outrageous. Acting as if you are a free thinking person is outrageous. The State has provided you with most of what you need to be happy and is trying to provide you more happiness and goodness. This president gave you free health care and free college education and more medicare and more welfare to ask annoying questions about the Messiah is outrageous. Do you not understand that a government that can give you anything can take all that you have? Now stop asking these outrageous questions, you have been bought and paid for and the State owns you. Shut up, sit down and be less outrageous.
<DIV> What ever in the world makes you think I am questioning?? </DIV> <DIV style=”FONT: 10pt arial”>
What ever in the world, makes you think I am questioning???
hihoze, you are outrageous!!! I begin to think that the word "OUTRAGEOUS" is a newly learned word for you. And like my three year old granddaughter, you must us it over and over and over. Are you afraid that you will forget it if you don't use it? If you haven't learned anything in the last few decades, surely you have learned not to trust anything the "State" tells you. You are unbelievable!!! Do you also believe that if you hide your eyes that no one can see you?
Hihoze, surely you realize by now that irony is lost on most folks here.
I find this whole thing unbelievable. Just like global warming. Do the American people actually not mind being lied to in the name of politics? Would they really give this man an approval rating higher than -10? I thought he was unelectable because the media would expose him and boy, was I wrong. But now that we have seen what he is – as much as we are allowed to – can people still trust him with anything?
To your question of trust, Mellissa, the answer seems to be yes. Where there is a lack of trust it is in our own abilities, the providence and the blessings of God and our own compassion that makes us generous to the stranger, the needy and the helpless.
None of these are a function of government but we have let our government buy our loyalty out of our own pocket. It is our responsibility to keep our government just. The politician has no more integrity than his constituency so if we choose to believe the political lies who is responsible?
Welcome to the world and Happy Birthday little baby…here are your papers.
Welcome to Kindergarten….May I see your papers?
Welcome to the Little Leage, Pee Wee Division. May I see your papers?
Welcome to the DMV, so you want a drivers license…May I see your papers?
Welcome to City Hall, so you want a Marriage License…May I see your papers?
Welcome to the Passport Office…May I see your papers?
Welcome to Social Security…May I see your papers?
Welcome to the White House Mr President of the United Socialist States of America…You don't need no stinking papers. You are above the law. You are more equal than others. Yes You Can! Yes We Can! Seig Heil! All hail the Marxist Messiah of the Socialist States of America. gee toto….I don't think we're in America anymore.
Obama has shown the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, the certification of live birth, used by thousands of people in Hawaii for Little League, drivers licenses and US passports every year. And the facts on Obama's birth certificate were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
Truer words were never spoken! I wonder how Mr. HIgh and Mighty Obama got around all of these requests for his birth certificate, which take place everywhere, for every occasion, in the United States of America!
The First Amendment to the Constitution is there primarily to ensure a press free of Government coercion . One of the key functions of that press is to inform the citizens as to what their Government is doing . While the media vetted George W. Bush down to the kind of diapers he wore as a baby , they have singularally failed to do any research on Obama . Not only leaning Left , as they have done for decades , this time they actively joined Obamas' campaign , raising him on their shoulders and carrying him across the finish line . They abdicated their responsibility to the American people . We , at one time , had reporters , but now only "journalists " educated at Left leaning colleges . It is unlikely that this will soon change . Speak out , and support venues that , at least , give you both sides . GHT
1) The facts on Obama’s official birth certificate were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
2) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
His father was not American . GHT
Ted welcome can I introduce you to the Ellen/Ellena, they talk just like you. I was wondering, could you find the whole page from the paper in 1961? Been looking and can only find cropped pieces of either of the papers that posted this. Thanks that would be a great help in our cause. You can ask the others why I would find that whole page very useful to the cause, dontcha know.
Oh" Protected Documents". Ya everything seems to be. Well just trying to resolve this issue so we can start counting to 3.75 Trillion for next year.
Here are the whole pages of both newspapers.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabi…
So, what is he hiding? Perhaps his parentage included Malcom XK?
The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758), by the Swiss Diplomat and Jurist, Emmerich de Vattel, was the source for the meaning of the term "Natural Born Citizen" when the Founding Fathers drafteed Article II—Section I—Clause V of the U.S. Constitution.
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President…"
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States; . . . ” As Barack Hussein Obama’s stated birth father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was at no time in his life a citizen of the United States, but rather a British subject and native citizen of Kenya, it is not possible for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to be a “natural born citizen” of the United States. Therefore, Barack Hussein Obama Jr. does not meet the constitutional qualifications to be president.
Thank you Gunner06. You put it much better than I.
You are exactly righ!! This disquaifies him from being President.It seems to me that if everyone would read our Constitution there would be no doubt that he is NOT now, never was and never can be President.Its just a FACT.He held a duel citizenship HIs father was a citizen of Kenya & a British subject.The birth cetificate makes no difference. No one can be President that owes allegiance to two countries. Of course this would explain why everything He does includes all the Muslim countries by bowing down & kissing their asses.If he is a Christian like he says then why did he attend a racist Muslim chruch all these years?
Folks, he is NOT eligible. It doesn't matter if he was born in the WH or on the steps of the USCapital.
In one of his own books he basically says that his own father was not an American citizen.
To be the POTUS a person's parents BOTH have to be US citizens at the time of his/her birth.
THAT's why the founders of this country excluded themselves by stating that a Natural born citizen (2 American parents) OR someone born by the US Revolution (I'm paraphrasing here!). They knew that they themselves were British citizens, same as Zero.
Now, we all know no-one alive now who was born before the Revolution, so, how about BOTH Zero's parents?
Who told you that the citizenship of a parent or even two parents has effect on the Natural Born Citizen status of a US-born citizen? It is WRONG. The reason that the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election UNANIMOUSLY is that not one single member believes that the citizenship of a parent has any effect.
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Ellen;
The Constitution states that! Try reading it. If they only meant that the president had to be born on American soil, they would have said that. They didn't! They said he had to be Natural Born which means that both parents have to be American Citizens. However, Obama was born a British Subject, and that alone means that he is not a natural born citizen because he is a British/Kenyan citizen.
The reason they put that in the Constitution is so that some foreign tyrant like Obama would be precluded from holding the office of POTUS.
If they had meant two citizen parents, they would have said it. They didn't say it in the Constitution, and they did not say it in the Federalist Papers, and the meaning of Natural Born referred to the PLACE of birth.
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
I agree with you 100% "Guest", but, I have always wondered what would be the case if there is no father listed and Obama is not just an incompetent boob(including, of course, the worst president ever), but a bastard. Does this mean he is a NBC because the only one listed was a citizen and Maybe Obummer is too chicken to have it known he is a boo-boo baby???
This particular possibility to the story have always perplexed me.
Any info how this scenario would shake out???
Obama's father is listed on the original birth certificate, and the name of the father on the original birth certificate is exactly the same as on the published official birth certificate. Exactly the same because, duh, the facts on the official birth certificate were copied by the clerk in Hawaii from the facts on the original birth certificate.
There is no field in either the official birth certificate or in the original birth certificate that indicates whether the two people listed as parents were married.
If Obama's parents were not married, which is unlikely since we have seen their divorce papers, it would have no effect on Natural Born Citizen status. Alexander Hamilton, one of the prominent leaders of the Revolution and the administration of George Washington, actually was illegitimate. He had a reasonable chance of being elected president too, if it hadn't been for that duel.
Dual Citizenship for a US Prez was a no-no. Obama Sr. was a British Citizen. To be eligible for the presidency, the framers set a higher bar.
Who told you that dual citizenship for US pres is a no-no? It is wrong. The framers never mentioned dual citizenship, and in fact Thomas Jefferson was a dual citizen at the time that he was president, having been made a FULL VOTING CITIZEN of France by the French Revolution's National Assembly.
The reason that the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election UNANIMOUSLY is that not one member in the 535 believed either that Obama was born outside of the USA or that the citizenship of his father or Obama's dual nationality at birth has any effect on his Natural Born Citizen status.
That's an idea I;ve been toying with some time now. Perhaps he is illegitimate and doesn't want anyone to know. But at this point, to what end? We none of us still know the full truth, and I wonder if we ever will. Probably not until he's out of the White House, I suspect.
Not that it matters, but what gave you that absurd idea? The divorce papers for his parents have been published. Obviously people who get divorced were married at one time.
Ellen, was not Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., married to a wife in Kenya and had children by her before he came to Hawai'i on a US Government Scholarship? If he married Stanley Ann Dunham in Hawai'i, then he would be a bigamist. I do not believe any Judge or Court official in the United States or any of its Territories would knowingly allow a person to marry whilst being married to another at the same time. I really suspect that they shacked up, and Barack, Jr., may be of illegitimate birth. If you say Marriage and Divorce papers have been published, then please make them known or where can we uninformed find them to make this issue go away. And, I really suspect no vault Birth Certificate is to be found in Hawai'i, or Governor Abercrombie would have found it. Remember, a Hawai'ian Certificate of Live Birth is all that has come to light for him. Anyone could send an announcement of birth to a newspaper in Hawai'i in that day. A true Birth Certificate includes the child's name, its length and weight at birth, name of the parents, the attending physician or mid-wife, and the location of birth.
The divorce papers: http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=653
The definition of what is legitimate and what is illegitimate is vague, but one thing is common is that the bigamy does not affect it. If a legal marriage took place, and the husband or wife were at the same time married to other people, the fact is that a legal marriage took place. The bigamy does not change it.
Abercrombie DID NOT SAY that he could not find the original birth certificate. WND said that he said it, and he didn't. And, in fact, there is an ORIGINAL birth certificate in the file as stated by TWO Republican officials in a written press release (and there was a Conservative Republican attorney general in Hawaii at the time who could have prosecuted them if they had lied).
http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html
Re: "A true Birth Certificate includes the child's name, its length and weight at birth, name of the parents, the attending physician or mid-wife, and the location of birth. "
Who told you that? It is wrong. An official birth certificate can either be a long-form birth certificate, that includes those details, or a short-form birth certificate that does not. Many, if not most, US states have gone to short-form birth certificates. Hawaii did in 2001, and since then it has not sent out the long-form to anyone, even to people born before 2001.
To date, the U.S. Constitution has not legally been overturned, nor have its words been amended to change the meaning of the definition of "Natural Born Ciitizen." By your interpretation, if his mother did not have a Cesarean Section at his birth, he would be "natural" born. The Constitituion is still the Basic Law of the United States. Read it! It can only be changed by an Amendment ratified by 38 States.
A natural born citizen must fit under either one or the other of the two criteria listed:
"“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
Obama falls under the first of these two criteria. McCain fell under the second, birth abroad to US citizens.
ALL US citizens who were born in the USA fall under the first category. The only people who are US citizens and are not Natural Born citizens are naturalized citizens.
Watch out, Guest, you have Ellen/Ellana on the case, and yours. She'll bulldog you to death over this subject, posting and re-posting the same hyperlinks ad nauseum in an attempt to bully you into believing she is an authority on the subject of presidential eligibility. The only thing she actually accomplishes with her effort is exhausting your patience and wasting your time. This issue is HER life.
Good luck.
No. It is my hobby.
That's right. You don't have a life. Retard…
Clever response Cracker. I thought you were better than that. Guess not.
Sarah Palin would be very disappointed in you.
I never claimed your scruples, especially where Ellen/Ellana is concerned. Or is Ellen/Ellana you, too?
Oh, and I'm not PC either. One of the wonders of free speech. Goes to show the Right isn't in lock-step philosophically.
Are you alleging that THREE Republican officials would lie? (Actually, it would have to be four officials, including the clerk who filled in the form, and we do not know the political party of the clerk). At the time there was a CONSERVATIVE Republican attorney general in Hawaii, who could prosecute the officials for the fraud of lying, if he thought that they were lying–but he didn't
Also, as tedsevens has pointed out:
There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
How do you account for the notices in the newspapers, the lack of an application for a visa or for him to be added to the passport of his mother in 1961, and the Kenyan grandmother saying that the first that her family had heard of Obama's birth was in a letter from Hawaii?
"Are you alleging that THREE Republican officials would lie?"
Are you alleging that Republicans wouldn't?
What would you say if they were two or three Demo ratic officials?
Actually, it would have to be four officials, the three Republicans and the clerk (whose party we do not know). And, at the time there was a Conservative Republican attorney general in office in Hawaii, who could have prosecuted them for lying. At the very least they would never get jobs in a Republican administration again if they were shown to have lied. The idea that they would lie under those circumstances is laughable.
AND, their confirmations are further confirmed by the notices in the newspapers in 1961, the statement of a witness
http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495…
And the interviews with the Kenyan grandmother, in one of which she says that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a letter from Hawaii. http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/world/chi…
The COLB is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, used by thousands of people every year. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii has sent out to anyone since 2001. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original, even to people born before 2001.
Every department in Hawaii (yes, including DHHL, I checked) accepts the COLB as proof of birth in Hawaii, and the US State Department and the branches of the US military accept is as proof of birth in the USA.
The Connecticut SS number was caused by a data entry error. SS numbers were generated by the zip code of the applicant’s address. Obama’s address in Hawaii was in zip code 96814, and the zip code for Danbury, CT. is 06814. Notice how close 9 and 0 are to each other on the keyboard?
There IS a difference between the terms "Native Born Citizens" and "Natural Born Citizens." De Vattel wrote his Law of Nations, and that was the International Authority accepted at the time when the Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution. De Vattel wrote that the "Blood Line" of citizenship followed the Father to protect European Royalty. The drafters of the Consitution wante no part of Royalty or Aristocracy when drafting the Constitution. Therefore, the added the requirement that both must be citizens of the country at the timeof birth of the child in the country. It cannot be any plainer to understand.
ALL native born citizens are Natural Born Citizens. Only naturalized citizens are not Natural Born Citizens.
Vattel recommended a lot of things that the Constitution did not adopt, such as a state religion, and he is not even mentioned once in the Federalist Papers.
The meaning of Natural Born in America (not Switizerland) at the time that the Constitution was written referred only to citizenship due to place of birth.
Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might be divided into two classes: natural born citizens, or those born within the state, and aliens, or such as were born out of it. The first, by their birth-right, became entitled to all the privileges of citizens; the second, were entitled to none, but such as were held out and given by the laws of the respective states prior to their emigration. …St. George Tucker, BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. (1803)
"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
Gunner, what was well understood at the time does get mangled by history. The writer of history is always at least slightly biased. One of the main reasons for requiring more than one witness.
Since our Constitution was the corner stone of our new nation we would naturally want our leader and president to be founded on that corner stone. I believe the term, "natural born", has reference to our understanding and loyalty to the principles on which our Constitution was based is the true meaning of natural born. This has only surfaced with the election of Obama. When we look at our current and recent elected officials they pass all the citizenship requirement but their loyalty to our Constitution. Many hold the beliefs of the Bolshevik revolutionaries. Today we cannot rely entirely on the citizenship of the parents or the geographical place of birth. Now we need to pay much more attention to what they believe. You are raising the right kind of questions.
If he has nothing to hide, why not show all his records ?
Because no president ever has.
THAT ABSOLUTELY SAYS IT ALL, J.P! The rest of this verbiage is an exercise in wasted time.
budget projects that 2011 will see the biggest one-year debt jump in history, or nearly $2 trillion, to reach $15.476 trillion by Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year. That would be 102.6 percent of GDP — the first time since World War II that dubious figure has been reached.
See it is not the Birth Certificate Ellen, Ellana, ted, and James(Sorry James I know you can not confirm your support this guy named Barry)) And if any others that are not in support for Barry except on this one issue I am truly sorry also. Ya when pigs fly Your all straight party line or you would spew the stuff you do.
Re: Budget deficit. This is a good reason for voting against Obama in 2012. I may even join you.
But it is not proof that Obama was born outside of Hawaii. In fact, it is not even relevant to the place of birth or to Natural Born Citizenship.
I only discuss these two issues, not whether Obama is a good or bad president.
To Ellen: If nothing else you are persistent and apparently you believe that Obama is the Messiah and that the sun sets and rises from his rear end. I"m old enough that, GOD forbid he gets a 2nd term, I won't have to abide his socialism very long. May I remind you of what Winston Churchill said about socialism. "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." I hope you have a long life in the Socialist State of
Meximerica.
Then vote against him in 2012. I may even join you.
But your views about socialism do not change the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii, was confirmed by the US Congress UNANIMOUSLY and is a Natural Born Citizen due simply to his place of birth, in the USA.
What does your opinion about socialism have to do with the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii?
In an earlier comment, someone asked another if they could cite the Web Address where Obama states he was born in Kenya. For added emphasis, Michele makes a statement on her own regarding where he was born. Is this You Tube Video the work of a slick con-artist? Is it real? You the reader be the judge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&fe…
Michelle has said that Kenya was Obama's native land or native country, using both in the same way that Kennedy and Reagan did to describe Ireland–the land of their ancestors. There have been several forgeries of Obama and, I suppose, Michelle, saying that he was born in Kenya. But these are obvious forgeries. You can see because the audience does not react to the "born in Kenya" alleged remarks.
There are at least three reasons why birth in Kenya would be impossible.
1) The facts on Obama’s official birth certificate were confirmed by THREE Republican officials in Hawaii.
2) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
3) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Also, Obama's Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. This is a birther lie caused by deliberately cutting the tape before she was asked the question "where was he born?" She answered that question by saying Hawaii repeatedly, and stressing "where his father was studying at the time." And, in another interview, she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a LETTER FROM HAWAII.
"Is this You Tube Video the work of a slick con-artist? Is it real? You the reader be the judge."
Interesting that you use the term "reader," considering that if you'd taken a few seconds to read the description directly below the video you'd see it clearly described as a fake. The Obamasnippets creator has said elsewhere that he can't believe how many people actually believe what he thought were obvious spoofs.
Black's Law Dictionary, like other experts on the law and the Constitution, is a modern analysis of what the meaning of the term Natural Born Citizen really is. And it can be shown that NO American leader at the time of the writing of the Constitution ever used the term to refer to parents AT ALL. They only used it refer to the place of birth.
Vattel was an expert on International law, but citizenship law and election law are domestic matters. And in any case, he is not referred to in the Federalist Papers, nor is there a letter from one American leader to another saying "let us use Vattel" or "let us require two citizen parents."
This alone should be sufficient because under STRICT CONSTRUCTION (Remember strict construction, the principle that conservatives claim to honor), if it does not say "two citizen parents," it does not mean two citizen parents. You are not allowed to read into the Constitution your theories about the writers being afraid of illegal immigrants–especially when they didn't worry about illegal immigrants at all.
The issue of the president's unquestioned loyalty is left up to the voters. The Constitution could easily have said "no traitors," but it didn't. In fact, it even allowed Torries—remember the Torries, the Americans who fought against the Revolution–to become president, so long as they were citizens.
ALL native born citizens are Natural Born Citizens.
"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
And that was confirmed by the US Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark ruling, which held (six justices to two, one not voting) that every child born in the USA, except for the children of foreign diplomats, is NATURAL BORN.
The actual words were:
"It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established."
Which is why the CONSERVATIVE Heritage Foundation guide to the Constitution wrote:
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
And that is the meaning of the Constitution, which as you say can only be changed by Amendment. This meaning was why the US Congress voted to confirm Obama unanimously and, as you know, the US Supreme Court has turned down every birther case.
Ellen,
Let me refer you to "SCOTUS-POTUS Summary", a decently well-researched and brief synopsis of the meaning of NBC. Can be found on Opinerlog.blogspot.com. Also, check out the federalistblog for more in-depth analysis.
If nothing else, the division of opinion on this issue clearly suggests that a SCOTUS ruling is in order. As much as I distrust its fidelity to the Constitution, at least a ruling might allow this simmering issue to wind down.
You have your talking points down pat, but you're missing a lot of the basics. Too much to go into here. Suggest you shed the blinders and do this tiny, little favor for us. Thanks.
The rules of the Supreme Court are that it decides what cases to accept and which to reject, and it has so far rejected all the birther cases.
It only takes four justices to call a case, so at least one of the four justices (probably a lot more than one) is not voting to call birther cases.
Some of the four conservative justices may be to some extent strict constructionists. The rule in strict construction interpretation is very simple; If the law or the Constitution does not say X, the law or the Constitution cannot be interpreted to mean X. And the neither the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, nor any writings of AMERICAN leaders at the time of the writing of the US Constitution said anything about parents affecting Natural Born Citizen status.
I have read Federalistblog, and I prefer this:
"“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
Ellen, any person born in the United States is "Native Born." The criteria for "Natural Born" is that both parents must have been citizens at the time of birth and that the birth must have occurred in the United States. Why did Obama and the Democrats challenge the birth of John McCain in Panama when his father, as a Naval Officer, served there? Answer, to make an issue to divert attention from the issue of Obama's birth. Just because Ed Meese was a Republican Attorney General does not make that view credible. Maybe someone should get Mr. Meese to confirm the point you attribute to him. Natural Born has another meaning; it is unquestionable loyalty to the United States and not a dual loyalty to the U.S. and a foreign country or government. By the way, Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship.
Re: "The criteria for "Natural Born" is that both parents must have been citizens at the time of birth and that the birth must have occurred in the United States."
Who told you that? It is WRONG.
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
The Democrats did not challenge McCain's eligibility; they supported it.
The reason that the US Congress voted to confirm Obama's election UNANIMOUSLY is that not one of the 535 members–mainly lawyers–agrees with you on the crazy two-parent theory or that dual citizenship at the time of birth affects Natural Born Citizen status.
Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, as a simple telephone call to the Indonesian embassy in Washington will confirm.
You, like so many on the left, have either willfully or sloppily misinterpreted the Wong Kim Ark case ruling. Read it verbatim, and tell me why I say this.
Also, consult the wrods of Sen. Howard, Bingham, et. al. framer so the 14th Amendment, and tell me that US Citizen is consittuionally the same as NBC.
I could also refer you to a post on opinerlog.blogspot.com entitled "Birthright Citizenship: Politics vs Rule of Law" . It is instructive and worth reading.
Bingham spoke before the Wong Kim Ark ruling. What he would have said after it we don't know, and it really doesn't matter because he was not a justice of the uS Supreme Court. BIngham was the author of the Equal Protection portion of the 14th amendment, not the citizenship portion.
Here are the words of the Wong Kim Ark case, verbatim:
"It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established."
As you can say, it says EVERY child (with the exception of the children of foreign diplomats and of foreign invaders) in England or the American colonies or the early US states, and under the Constitution is Natural Born.
That is why Edwin Meese and the Conservative Heritage Foundation had this in their book:
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President …"—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
I believe the subterfuge involves more than Barack Obama. Obama's stay in the White House rivals any of the greatest scams of this world. This is not just one person misrepresenting or concealing his past, this has to involve the heirarchy of the Democrat Party in concert with the big money that backs it.
Obama is a mere figurehead and that he proves every day. Never has there been a more inept person elected to the presidency in the United States!
As much as I dread "conspiracy theories," we Americans live with this unimaginable hoax every day that it continues on.
The Democrats have taken into account all the laws they have circumnavigated. They have no other motivation but power at the expense of placing this nation in jeopardy. And, they have gotten away with it because enough ignoramuses voted for the "Pie in the Sky" Democrat promises.
Elections have consequences and they're coming home to roost.
At least ten of the states are enacting law requiring political candidates, who want their names on the respective state's voting ballots, to provide proof of birth and U.S. citizenship. I understand that there are more of such individual states planning to launch similar legal requirements for voting
ballot qualification. I think more states will pass concurrent laws requiring same official documentation.
Never before have such requirements been contemplated, but never before has there been such a "Big Lie" as has been perpetrated upon us by the Democrat Party and Obama. Check with your state senators and representatives!
All that they will require in the legislation is the OFFICIAL birth certificate, which is what Obama has already shown. Yes, some of the bills currently say the original, but they cannot demand that because many, if not most US states have now switched to short-form birth certificates and made it their official birth certificate. Every state must honor the official documents of other states under the Constituiton's full faith and credit clause. Also, since some states have only issued short-form birth certificates for a decade, in about 25 years there will be eligible women and men who have only short-form birth certificates.
The bottom line is that legislators in 10 states are fully aware of what has been posted on the internet by Obama purporting to be his proof of citizenship yet aren't satisfied with such documentation. As the states are within their rights to establish election laws for their jurisdiction, if legislation is passed requiring something more evidentiary it will be Obama's responsibility to meet those requirements or face the possibility of being left off the ballots for both the primary and the general elections in those states. No matter how much bloggers debate this subject it will, like so many other parts of Obama's life and works, eventually end up in court; there is no way Obama can allow legislation so harmful to his career to be enacted without a legal challenge.
If the laws are actually passed to specify the original birth certificate, they will be challenged as violating the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution, in which states must accept the official documents of other states. But it is unlikely that the legislation, if it passes, would continue to say the original because, duh, some states (not Hawaii) may actually have destroyed the original. One state cannot force another state to maintain documents or penalize citizens in states that have destroyed them.
And, since many states have now adopted short-form birth certificates, in about 30 years or so, there will be lots of eligible women and men who have nothing but a short-form birth certificate.
You're an idiot, Ellana. The form of BC that you wish Hawaii had destroyed is existent and on file. How do I know? Because someone asked for their long form BC and received it just to prov to morons like you that they ARE on file. And they were older than your god. Full Faith and Credit is a jumble. South Carolina, for example, doesn't recognize a Georgia drivers license as proof of age. How do I know? Because I was refused service in an establishment because of it. They may accept it in the spirit of comity (and do for the most part), but they also have the right to refuse service. States establish what other states' documents they accept, not the Federal government. Like I said, you're an idiot who would argue with a STOP sign.
i AM NOT Ellana, but I will answer this:
I agree with you. The original BC is on file. However, no one can get it. The person who alleged that she had gotten it actually had a copy of the original, which she photocopied. Then she asked Hawaii for a copy, and received the short-form Certification, like everyone else. Then she showed the photocopy and the receipt for the payment and claimed that she received the original.
However, the original BC of Obama is certainly on file because TWO Republican officials have stated it in writing.
But the fact that the original is on file in Hawaii does not mean that originals may not have been destroyed in other states in the process of converting to short-form BC. Since that could have happened, no state will demand the original because that would take away the right to be president of millions of people. Moreover, every state must accept the official BC of another state under the US Constitution's Full Faith and Credit clause.
Re: "States establish what other states' documents they accept, not the Federal government."
Answer: NO. Here is what the Full Faith and Credit clause says:
"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."
See the word RECORDS?
Oh, and those men and women who only have a short form: if it doesn't establish proper citizenship they won't be running for president. Whether you like it or not, there WILL be a method of establishing natural born citizenship status in the future just to avoid the mess that is happening right now. For all involved (except fools like you) it makes sense.
The short-form birth certificates are the official birth certificates of their states. They are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the military, and since they are the OFFICIAL birth certificates of a state, they will and MUST be accepted by all the other states under the Full Faith and Credit clause, which reads:
"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."
I find it most troubling that the Obama qualification issue has not been the front page story every day for the past 3 years. The fact that Bill O'Reilly of Fox News calls those who question Obama's elgibility "nutty" is at least evidence of how poorly thought out this issue is by the media. Let's assume, for the sake of the argument that B. Hussein Obama is an illegal alien and Muslim Terrorist plant. Outside the highest levels of government he would have to have passed a security check to work at a federal facility. Given what we do know about him, disregarding the citizenship issue, he could not have gotten a clearance to be the janitor in a federal nuclear facility. However, this same person apparently can be handed the codes for our nukes if he can raise enough money and assemble the needed "ballot box stuffers" to be elected president. That in a nutshell is why the "birther" issue is not nutty – it is deadly serious and must be resolved before the next election.
"Let's assume, for the sake of the argument that B. Hussein Obama is an illegal alien and Muslim Terrorist plant."
Or let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that Obama is an alien zombie from the planet Xenon who plans to eat the brains of every Republican. Now that's deadly serious. Or seriously deadly. Or something.
The Politican That Calls Barry Soetoro AKA Barack Obama Out And Proves Without Any Doubt That He Is A Phoney Just Voting PRESENT, Yikeess, However If We Have Trouble With His Birth Certificate, Go For A Phoney Social Security Card, Plus A Phoney Selective Service Card, Yikeess, If He Acts Like A Phoney It Is The Biggest Liar In Wash DC Pres Barack Obama. God Bless America.
Poll: Majority of Republicans Doubt Obama's Birthplace.
Ellen headlines like this is going to provide job security for you and yours. I know you say your not being paid to do this. But I'm sure it feels like a job does it?
Simple resolution: Hospital, Doctor and Time of birth. Three very harmless facts that would put this to rest. I bet they will never let these three simple things be revealed. I would love for you to be right and we could end this discussion today. Its not going to end because end justifies the means. He has other issues that make this irrelevant and will not do this one thing for his country. He is a self centered person whom has presumed he is better than all the rest. The Train wreak for people like that is usually very destructive and when in 2013 and he is seating behind the podium as a one term President watching the next one take over, that train will be leaving the station. Wow more than 1/4 of the voting public don't believe the chosen one birth story. Good luck with all them there facts your pumping out. KISS Keep it simple Stupid, its a saying and I am not calling you stupid. You know the "Its the economy stupid" used by the Clnitons in 1992 .
Update; after reading this story again, the other interesting fact is that 51 percent don't believe he was born in Hawaii and 49 percent DON"T KNOW or believe the birth of the chosen ones past.
DON'T KNOW.
ELLEN ::::::::::ALERT: Your going to have to put some overtime in on this one. The masses must be stupid and just don't believe facts given out by public officials. I m Shocked.
ROTFLMAO>>>>>> ACTION THAT. :-@
And why would most of us care (or be particularly surprised by) what half of Republicans believe?
Re: "Simple resolution: Hospital, Doctor and Time of birth. Three very harmless facts that would put this to rest."
Nuts it would put it to reset. I have already seen birther sites where there are birthers who are saying NOW that if the original were released by Hawaii, they will immediately claim that it is forged.
Since THREE Republican officials have confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii, birthers are currently saying that the three are lying.
And birthers have no explanation for this, but they continue to say that they believe that Obama was born outside of the USA:
If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
In part the birther belief is based on a big lie, the lie that Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya, which many sites continue to repeat and repeat, and some people have started to believe them. But she never said it, and in fact she said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama's birth was in a letter from Hawaii.
You are welcome to your fantasies. But there are many others who believe that reality is based on facts, and that their views should be shaped by the facts. For these people, it is worthwhile to see the facts, and the facts are that Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and three Republican officials have confirmed the facts on it.
Ellen said; You are welcome to your fantasies. Thank you. sometime fiction turns into truth if you wait long enough. How many times have you read a book that you knew was never possible, then 50 years or so later it fact. Great thing imagination is sometimes.
I'm going to do one or another thing. One is make you a better researcher, two would be you will end up in a nutty house. I prefer the the first.
Happy posting. and smile once in awhile. it just the internet, it kind like the playground at school when the playground attendant is not around.
I think fiction is just great. I have long been a fan of science fiction, but it shows possibilities. It is not a predictor, In 50 years SOME of the science fiction turns out to be right, but some is also wrong, and in fact most of it is wrong. It has to be that way because so much in the way of different possibilities have been written.
Facts, however, do not change, and they show that Obama was born in Hawaii and has shown the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii and the facts on it were confirmed by three Republican officials in Hawaii.
I welcome all suggestions on research. Since you claim to be able to do so, why not come up with the research that would answer these two points:
1) There were notices of Obama’s birth in the newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 (and those were not ads. The newspapers did not accept birth notice ads in 1961. They only took their notices from the department of vital records, which did not issue notices unless there was proof of birth in Hawaii [They did NOT accept "walk in" birth registrations.]).
2) If a child were born in any other country than the USA, she or he would need a US visa or to be entered on the mother’s US passport in order to be allowed to enter the USA. If such a document existed for Obama, it would have to have been applied for, and the files of the applications for it would still exist–and NO SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FOUND.
Thanks for the smile suggestion. Smile when you read this: Barack H. Obama is the 44th president of the United States.
Nancy Pelosi is the lone person to verify Obama/Biden eligibility verification according to the electoral college documents that she took upon herself to alter by removing the "constitution clause" from the text and then sent them out to every state except for Hawaii were the clause was left intact. Why isn't she being investigated for tampering with official documents? What did she know and when? The whole investigation should focus first on her illegal actions. Nancy has a lot of explaining to do.
This is an excellent example of why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly all call birthers crazy.
The President is attempting to set a precedent and destroy the constitutional republic with the help of all of congress and apparently the courts as well. Have they all gone mad to protect an obvious usurper or have they all been threatened with terror to their families and fear of death? Make's one wonder if Judge Roll was the actual target in the Tucson shooting….although Obama was quick to say that the judge had JUST STOPPED BY TO SAY HI. Maybe the judges live in fear, and remember Lou Dobbs and his wife were shot at while leaving their home for mentioning the birth certificate. A lot of people are living in fear and doubt of this administration. The bullying and forcing heavy-handily hasn't stopped for three years. I know it sounds conspiratorial but….The people want to know who the heck is BARRY-BARACK-HUSSEIN-SOETORO-SOEBARKAH-OBAMA? And what will the revelation of his paper trail show? Lt. Col. Lakin is setting in a military jail for asking. How long can this man hide?
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What is this 4 Supreme court rulings in the past I knew I saw Parents as plural some where: Ellen can you help me with these words from four supreme court rules. You know since I am not as smart as some these folk around here.
CONCLUSION Finally it should be noted, that to define a term is to indicate the category or class of things which it signifies. In this sense, the Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.
See plural for parents. that is the one that just keep coming back to me for some reason, now what was seniors citizenship? cause right after this in a couple of ruling they say the child will take the fathers citizenship. Is there any rulings I am missing I found 4. Please advise. Thank you for your time.
Sorry to drag you back in but the subject matter is a little out of your interest in today's headlines here and I just thought maybe the autobot would kick in. Silly me. Always thinkin somedone dotchano
Let The 2012 Election Silence The Obama Goons Plus George Soros, James Bond McPheww And His Ugly Daughters Ellen, Ellena, Yippee, Lets Put Some Class In The White House And Get A Lady To Do A Mans Job, Yippee, Drill Baby Drill Sarah Palin, Yippee, God Bless America.